Help with getting parents upgraded?

Hi everyone,

I just discovered this website from Flyertalk.com and I LOVE it. I hope it's OK to ask this question here... I'm hoping a guru can help.

I admit I'm a total newbie here and don't know all the lingo yet, so please bear with me.

My husband and I are flying in PE with our toddler on S class tickets SFO to LHR, and my parents are on the same flight in economy on Q tickets. (At the time we booked our tickets I was told we got the last tickets in PE, then on a later call to Virgin there were more PE tickets but only at full price... so my parents were fine to go coach.)

But, it would be so great to have them nearby (and ideally right there in PE) so that they can help with the baby during the flight if needed.

What are the odds of us successfully getting an upgrade for them when we check in at the desk.

Here's what I was thinking of doing... can you critique it and offer any other strategies, or tips?

When we get to the gate (or should I do it when we check our luggage at the counter?) and I would ask about how full both economy and PE are... then mentioning that we're travelling with my parents who, when we booked their tickets, we weren't able to get them into PE with us. Then I thought of using a modified "speech" (like the one here on the main FF board) to explain that it would be so great if my parents could be there to help with the baby and that if E was oversold and/or they had to move anyone around would they please consider moving up my parents? Or am I smoking crack to think they'd consider this?

Another thing I don't know if it will help, hinder, or make no difference what-so-ever... is that we're actually visiting my brother in law just suddenly had to move to London for his job with his wife and new baby... so this is a route no doubt we'll need to make more of in the coming year or so.

If they can't move them to PE, I was at least hoping to ask them if they can be up towards the front of the E section, near the bulkhead... but I know that those seats often go to families with children, then VFC members with more status.

BTW, we've joined Flying Club but admittedly this is our first flight on Virgin so we are just lowly red members... but hope to become more though if we do continue flying with Virgin.

What do you all recommend?

Thanks in advance,
Kat

Hi there and welcome to the forum! It seems we are drawing FTers over to here on a daily basis!

The first stop for you is to read this site's great guide to upgrades here:
http://www.v-flyer.com/upgrades.asp

In there you will see particular reference drawn to the fabled "Speech" - in essence i wouldn't rely on that! The best accessory your parents could have (the best anyone could have?!) is a Virgin Gold Card, but since they don't, they will be far down the list when it comes to upgrades i'm afraid.

Having said all that, as with all things in life politeness and pleasantry goes a very long way, so it won't hurt to try charming the pants off the check-in agent . Leaving the issue until the gate seems a bit late, and you may encounter staff there that are more rushed/harried.

Good luck!

(Edited to distinguish that the parents' status is what counts here, not the poster's...)

Onionz, thanks for the honest feedback. Hmmm... I read the link you gave me... that's essentially what I'd read in other places but wanted to know if there were any good tricks or if my strategy is just plain crazy. I realize I'm looking for the holy grail of upgrades by asking... and the idea of "the speech" does sound ludicrous. "Hi, i'm wondering if you'd consider upgrading me if I do something for you."

I don't mean to get by with something I haven't earned or devalue the true gold card benefits... and, in fact, I would have bought them the darned PE tickets when I bought mine but the phone agent said, "oh, someone just booked up a whole block of tickets so all I can offer you is 2 seats." Now, of course, in hindsight, I know that person probably only "held" the seats, becasuse a few days later those seats became available again at my fare... but we had already bought my parents their non-refundable seats in E.

Couple more questions:

A) Are there any tips for finding out ahead of time whether economy is oversold? I was thinking of trying that tack... i.e. "If you have to upgrade some people, would you consider my parents... since we might need their help on the flight."

B) If I fail at the check in counter, is it possible to ask again at the gate? Assuming it's not the same staff, they have no way of knowing I already asked, right?

If all else fails, I guess I'll do what all other red card holders do... hope to charm the folks at the check-in gate.

Then again, I was thinking of travelling with a 2 lb box of Sees candy for my brother in law... maybe I could offer it to the agent? (Only half kidding here.)

Thanks again,
kat

(A) Using the availability tool or flyaow (do a search in the forum to find these) you can see if Economy is likely to be oversold.

(B) By the time you get to the gate all the upgrades will have been decided (unless someone refuses one!)

There are no "tricks" to upgrading. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. But as the upgrade guide says, you have a much better chance if you are VFC Gold, single, polite, etc. etc. Actually, I lie. The "trick" to upgrading is not to think too much about it. Then if it does happen it's a nice surprise.

Oh, and if there is availability in PE when you get to the airport, why don't you just go to the ticket desk and pay for an upgrade? VS will allow you to do this sometimes.

BC

quote:Originally posted by skatterfly
Onionz, thanks for the honest feedback.

No problem

quote:
Hmmm... I read the link you gave me... that's essentially what I'd read in other places but wanted to know if there were any good tricks or if my strategy is just plain crazy. I realize I'm looking for the holy grail of upgrades by asking... and the idea of "the speech" does sound ludicrous. "Hi, i'm wondering if you'd consider upgrading me if I do something for you."

I'm intrigued by what the content of "the speech" actually is. Searching FT for generic words like speech is a tricky one, so i'd be grateful if you would explain what it involves.

Everything BlackCat says is true. An early arrival at the airport and an offer to pay for the PE upgrade would also show you're not trying to get a freebie, so will help the cause.

Onionz and Blackcat, thank you so much for the help. I'll look into that availability tool... is that something here or through the airline?

And I'll definitely at least inquire about buying their upgrades... along the lines of, "how much would it cost to upgrade my folks?" Unfortunately, what I read in the link Onionz gave me the cost of the upgrade is far more than the delta between my fare and my mom's fare. I shoulda- coulda- woulda- bought her tickets then if I hadn't been so worried about losing out on the fare for me.

And Onionz, you asked about info on "the Speech"... here's a link to FT where I first saw it mentioned.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthre ... grade+tips

Also, when I did a search on "upgrade tips" this came up... I think it focuses on BA but there may be a reference in ther to the speech.

Hope I was able to return the help you've given.

~kat

Interesting link thanks. By all means volunteer in the manner the "speech" suggests, but VS already have an action plan for overbooked flights, and this involves an ordered list of prioritised passnegers. So you will need some luck!

Remember that the link is referring to United - it seems American carriers like to give upgrades when possible, whereas the European approach it to upgrade only when strictly necessary (they have to make sure people don't get reliant on op-ups, and possibly damage revenue potential).

The web-based availability checker is here:
http://www.flyaow.com/classamex.htm

Once you have pinpointed your flight, you'll find a string of letters and numbers showing availability in the various fare classes. It will look a bit like this:

J7 D4 Z0 W3 S0 K0 Y7...

J, D and Z are Upper. W, S and K are PE. Y onwards is Economy. Unfortunately the online tool doesn't always show W and K it seems. The important bit for you is Y onwards. If Y is less than 7, then Economy is likely to be full, so they will need to bump people up. But then they will need space in PE, so we then move on to W, S and K classes...anyway post back here what you find...

I think the best tack is to just ask if they can be sat fairly close to you, even if not in PE, so they can help out with your baby if necessary.

This may work, if either Y is oversold and PE isn't (and they are looking to bump up), or some PE pax have mileage upgraded to UC, leaving vacant space in PE.

On the other hand, it could also backfire, and you could be offered space down the back of the bus in order to sit with your folks, which I strongly suggest you don't accept!

Be advised that VS do not like people shuffling between cabins during the flight, but a friendly word in the ear of your IFS (the black-shirted flight attendant) should should things out.

Cheers,
Mike

Onionz, thanks for the availability checker link.

On the outbound flight, it looks like this:
J7D7Z7S7Y2B0L0M0Q0X0N000 so I think this means that economy looks pretty darned full!

On the inbound flight, it looks like:
Cabin class: J7 D7 Z7 S7 Y7 B7 L7 M7 Q7 X7 N0 0 0 so I guess not quite as full?

One of the tips pages I read said that you could also get an advanced op up... even before you get to the check in. Do you think it's worthwhile if I called Virgin directly, and asked them if they'd do it for us. (I know, I'm gently pushy and smoking crack! )

Just wondering, if perhaps since they promised me the skycot and then told me they can't accommodate it, and then put me up on the upper level, then took it away... if any of that might be enough for them to be willing to do give an upgrade over the phone. (All of this, by the way, was documented in my notes... not because I even complained, but apparently the agents seemed to keep notes.)

If not, it seems my best bet is to just show up really early, mention my modified "speech" (though I'm not going to follow the one from FT) and ask first what the cost of an upgrade would be... then say, "oh, well... if you have to upgrade anyone hopefully you'll consider the folks so they can help out so I don't have to go running back and forth between cabins."

Mike-Smashing, thanks for the heads up on talking to the IFS... I am counting on being able to move between cabins a bit, and would certainly swap with one of my parents if the baby is fussy and bothering the folks in PE. You're right, there's NO WAY I'd take seats in the back of the bus for what I've paid for PE... granted it's not UC but it's significantly more than economy fare.

Too bad it's not as easy as a box of yummy chocolates... it's interesting at Fodors where I also post a lot, one woman is a rep for a cosmetics line and says she almost always gets upgraded (on any airline) by bribing the counter agents with freebies. Though she didn't say which ones.

Thanks,
kat

quote:Originally posted by skatterfly

On the outbound flight, it looks like this:
J7D7Z7S7Y2B0L0M0Q0X0N000 so I think this means that economy looks pretty darned full!

Yes looks like Economy is full and PE has some space - so good news on that.

quote:
On the inbound flight, it looks like:
Cabin class: J7 D7 Z7 S7 Y7 B7 L7 M7 Q7 X7 N0 0 0 so I guess not quite as full?

This one is wide open, as they say.

quote:
One of the tips pages I read said that you could also get an advanced op up... even before you get to the check in. Do you think it's worthwhile if I called Virgin directly, and asked them if they'd do it for us. (I know, I'm gently pushy and smoking crack! )

I think you'd be VERY lucky to successfully negotiate that! Let us know how it goes anyway...

quote:Originally posted by skatterfly
Just wondering, if perhaps since they promised me the skycot and then told me they can't accommodate it, and then put me up on the upper level, then took it away... if any of that might be enough for them to be willing to do give an upgrade over the phone. (All of this, by the way, was documented in my notes... not because I even complained, but apparently the agents seemed to keep notes.)

Hi Kat,

Upper Class with the suite is probably worse than PE for your little one right now, unless you have him/her on your knee, or switch to bed mode for the whole flight.

I've heard that the UCS seat is not suitable for the "infant care chair" (like a car chair), plus there is currently no skycot/bassinet position in the UCS cabin.

From talking to the IFS on my recent flight, there has been talk about trying to fit a skycot position on one of the future refits (maybe on G-VXLG or one of the A340-600s), but this may not be sorted in time for your flight.

Cheers,
Mike

quote:Originally posted by mike-smashing

Be advised that VS do not like people shuffling between cabins during the flight, but a friendly word in the ear of your IFS (the black-shirted flight attendant) should should things out.

Cheers,
Mike

This is good to know. I'm pretty resigned to them being in Economy, though with some luck at least they'll be closer to the front and perhaps on the same side of the plane as us.

But if it's going to be a problem going back and forth into Economy, I'd love to know how to deal with it early, and escalate that with the right person if necessary. Can they technically "pevent" me from going when the seatbelt sign is off... especially since I will likely need to use the loo in economy at least occasionally (since PE on the main level doesn't have it's own)?

Can you (or another guru here) fill me in on the pecking order for the flight staff and what these acronyms stand for, IFS, ACC, etc. I don't want to be a pushy passenger but I also know that after 12 hours of holding a toddler (especially if she's awake on the return flight) will be hard. Grandma has a special calming effect sometimes... and I don't want to be hassled if I decide to stretch my legs in Economy. (Not that I'd have my mom up in PE, though... I know that would be a no no.)

Thanks,
Kat

quote:Originally posted by skatterfly

Just wondering, if perhaps since they promised me the skycot and then told me they can't accommodate it, and then put me up on the upper level, then took it away... if any of that might be enough for them to be willing to do give an upgrade over the phone. (All of this, by the way, was documented in my notes... not because I even complained, but apparently the agents seemed to keep notes.)

Have they promised you a skycot? Just wondering as there are no skycot positions in PE on our LHR based 744s - only economy. And since most LHR 744s now have suites - no skycot positions in UC either.

Yes, Tinkerbelle, the had promised us the skycot. Not only was it in my initial request, but it was clearly in there in 2 follow up calls to confirm some other details. They said that skycots are always given to families travelling with babies. I swear, I think the people here at v-flyer know more than the ticketing agents do, even about the policies. (As I said, when I did call them to say that I had learned there were no bulkheads on the 747-400s in PE, they were nonchalant but didn't seem to know either way. At some point the computer had also automatically assigned us to seats on the upper deck, and then when I called back inquiring about the skycots, that agent said, "oh, I see you're on the upper deck... going to have to move you down to the main level because children are NOT allowed on the upper deck."

I'm not complaining... just would be thrilled if someone there knew the policies upfront so that I could have gone into knowing the facts.

Bottom line, my 15 month old is probably too big for the sky cot anyway, so it's no biggie. Just thought it might help my chances of securing a bulkhead which, it turns out, there aren't in PE. So, anyway... you live and learn.

~kat

quote:Originally posted by skatterfly
I swear, I think the people here at v-flyer know more than the ticketing agents do, even about the policies.

That's probably because we V-flyers travel on the aircraft more than they do!

Let's face it, the guys and girls you talk to on the phone spend most of their day cooped up in some call centre!

I wonder if VS actually show them the aircraft as part of their induction? If not, it would be a great idea, to help them properly understand and sell their product.

Mike

[RichardMannion]

On the call centre staff, it depends who you speak to. The 2 people I normally speak to at VS in regarsd to my bookings etc really do know their stuff!

Thanks,
Richard

quote:I wonder if VS actually show them the aircraft as part of their induction? If not, it would be a great idea, to help them properly understand and sell their product

I spoke to a very helpful young man in the AU premier team last week.He had never seen the UCS fitted in a cabin but only in an early mock-up, so relied on customer feedback(which he reported was very positive) to answer customers general questions about flying in the suites .

Kat

quote:Can you (or another guru here) fill me in on the pecking order for the flight staff and what these acronyms stand for, IFS, ACC, etc.

If you see an abbreviation "underlined" with "----", that means that the explanation is given in the glossary. Just hovering your mouse over the abbreviation will also show an explanation in a "pop-up" yellow box.

This thread gives you an idea of the new cabin crew titles:
http://www.v-flyer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1774

HTH

Cheers

Michael