Cabin Crew Pay Update *2nd NOV*

I stand by all I say as I have said I know what can and can't be done by both crew and customers on a VS airplane.

Originally posted by virgin is the best


Customers may help us with things but at the end of the day its the crew that are in control we are the ones that use the Defib, We are the ones that do CPR and mouth to mouth, We are the ones that would restrain using the equipment we have for this, we are the ones that flight the fire, we are the ones that would save you if need be!

In my earlier post i did forget to ask just one question.

Here goes[i]
What exactly happens on a U.K commercial flight where there are no Cabin Crew ?

Originally posted by jerseyboy

What exactly happens on a U.K commercial flight where there are no Cabin Crew ?

It doesn't take off...

[Nottingham Nick]

GJ, The Voice of Reason.[y]

This debate has been fascinating, with strong views and opinions expressed very eloquently by a number of people.

We are now in danger of going round in circles. The last thing the mods want to do is stifle debate, but I think it is getting near to the point where everyone has given their point of view.

Unfortunately, given the overwhelming vote by VS staff to reject the last offer, the debate probably has a long way to run, but this thread is getting too unwieldy IMHO.


Nick

Originally posted by FlyCC

Originally posted by jerseyboy

What exactly happens on a U.K commercial flight where there are no Cabin Crew ?

It doesn't take off...

Wrong answer[|:)]

It does take off and they fly every day of the year with paying passengers aboard.

I am also one of their frequent flyers

[Decker]

Oooh puddle jumpers... yes been there

Originally posted by Decker
Oooh puddle jumpers... yes been there

Indeed the much love AURIGNY AIR and BLUE ISLAND to name but two[^][y]

Cheers Jerseyboy

I agree that this post has slowly run out of control. I fail to see how this thread benefits the public booking or flying with Virgin Atlantic and I now fail to see how it even benefits us Crew trying to get the customer to understand why we're upset with the proposed deal. We've also tried to explain that there is a large number of staff who are against potential strike action. I don't think there is anything else to say apart from the real information from our union when it arises in the near future if it may affect the passenger.

Jerseyboy, I didn't realise this was now a competition or argument between the crew and passenger. On Commercial Airlines, there is such thing as a crew to passenger ratio, which was what I thought you were genuinely asking. I think your comment was extremely immature.

Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
So let me see if I get this right:

* Some cabin crew are very good
* Some cabin crew are shi*e
* Some pax are very good
* Some pax are shi*e
* MCO is a valued route
* MCO is the path to hell
* Crew deserve to be paid a fair wage that's at least in keeping with the inflation rate
* Crew deserve to be paid a fair wage that's in excess of the inflation rate
* Crew should push for their wage but not strike
* Crew should push for their wage and strike
* Money doesn't grow on trees
* Babies come from ladies

Now, beyond these benchmarks, is there possibly ANYTHING further of use to share in this thread or have we pretty much closed it down?

God knows, playing the Voice of Reason is not my typical role in this beloved cyber-panto known as V-Flyer, but I shall endeavour to do so now by asking: Has not this thread run its course?

Thank you.

GJ

PS -- I honour our CC for their extensive training and ability to play a massive role in the face of emergencies -- but I honestly am not often called upon to care if they could land the Hindenburg in a hurricane; I just want them to be friendly and bring me a drink on a consistent basis (and yes, be there to administer CPR to me when Lady Mannion walks on the plane). And that's all I'm sayin'...

Impressive, most impressive[oo]

Originally posted by FlyCC


Jerseyboy, I didn't realise this was now a competition or argument between the crew and passenger. On Commercial Airlines, there is such thing as a crew to passenger ratio, which was what I thought you were genuinely asking. I think your comment was extremely immature.

Sorry but I was being genuine in asking not childish, I just threw a bit of light hearted trivia in to the thread.

And yes there are real comercial airlines that fly in the uk with paying passangers and no cabin crew onboard.

Cheers Jerseyboy

Oh no, i've got to (kind of) agree with Alan AGAIN!!! As you say 'However it always seems to be that FA's give this attitude that they are better than the other support staff', luckily this really is a minority & would tend to be the types that they most dislike as pax on those MCO routes mentioned. There are a few (& i mean a few) that believe the hype that they are the best thing since sliced bread & that the airline revolves around them. But as i say why should the rest suffer??

Not all UK carriers would take off without crew. Both VS and BA included.

[buns]

To add another voice of reason here, I have read with interest the numerous posts and GJ has quite succinctly set out the gist of what has been said so far.

From someone within the public service who once went on strike, I can say whilst passion was high within the workforce at the time and this seemed to fuel the indignation of the management's offers, once the issue was resolved and we had to get back to living and working with one another. It took an inordinate time for some wounds to heal, especially some of the hurtful comments that had been made at the time.

Whatever the outcome, and there will be an outcome, VS will continue, V-Flyers will still fly and staff will enjoy their job - let us not get to a stage where we are stereotyping crew /pax or pax / crew on this site as it will lead to all of us having unpleasant flights in the future.

Let's keep the comments objective and hope that the sense of reason shines through

buns

Aurigny, Blue Island/Rockhopper, BA (franchise) use BN Islanders which fly scheduled routes without cabin crew everyday.

This is a slightly pointless debate; it's getting to the point where it would be like trying to reconcile Karl Marx and Margaret Thatcher.

45.

Originally posted by VS045
Aurigny, Blue Island/Rockhopper, BA (franchise) use BN Islanders which fly scheduled routes without cabin crew everyday.

This is a slightly pointless debate; it's getting to the point where it would be like trying to reconcile Karl Marx and Margaret Thatcher.

45.

Or Gordon Brown & the great Mrs T[:p]

Without publicly siding with anyone on this matter at this stage, I feel that there is no more to be said now on this thread.

Let the crew and the respective unions talk with VS, and see what happens out of it. Apart from the crew nobody on here is going to change the situation single-handedly and/or as a group.

Face it if the crew decide to strike there's not much that we can do (apart from choosing not to fly with VS again) and we'll just have to live with that. If the crew reach an agreement then woohoo problem solved, everybody's happy.

I'll say no more on this subject, I or anyone else on here (except crew) are not going to change the situation.

In fact, can I make a request for this thread to be locked?

Though I agree this is going around in circles right now, the subject is still fluid and on a Virgin related forum I can't imagine a more apt reason for a discussion. Also given that this is a dispute between two parties of VA and we the clients, fans whatever are the piggies in the middle I don't think the thread should be permantly locked. Us customers do appear to be factors in the equation not disinterested bystanders. Though we didn't choose to be involved.

[The Moderators]

The mods have had a discussion and have decided the following:

Whilst it is true that the discussion is now too long and is starting to go round in circles. The thread has been viewed over 10,000 times and the subject matter is far too important to just lock it and end the debate, the thread will therefore remain open.

Many thanks to all of the contributors who have made this such an enthralling read. We hope that it will continue but are adding a couple of extra ground rules to try and keep it readable.

1. Please do not overuse the quote facility when replying to posts, this adds to the number of pages and makes it look even more daunting.
2. It isn't always necessary to repeat debating points used earlier in the thread.
3. Please continue to avoid direct ad hominems towards other posters. In other words - Keep it clean. [:D]

In addition to this, the mods may start to edit the thread to remove some of the quotes and some of the posts that do not give any opinion. This is not censorship, it is merely an effort to make the thread more readable for new visitors.

When there is a major development in the ongoing pay dispute story, this thread will be locked and linked to a new debate, purely for the reasons outlined above.

Thanks again to everyone. Even though there are some strongly divided opinions about the best way forward, I think everyone wants it to turn out best for the passengers and the employees of Virgin Atlantic in the end.

Having read the last few pages I have 1 question. Do I get to fly to Orlando on the 18th October or not?

Miopyk[8D]

Originally posted by miopyk
Having read the last few pages I have 1 question. Do I get to fly to Orlando on the 18th October or not?

Miopyk[8D]

Apparantly we don't count, we are just customers who have paid top whack to get there, we come under the catagory of collatoral damage by the looks of it, on top of that we are MCO bucket and spaders lowest of the low[;)]

Anyone care to answer the question?

It would be nice if one of the cabin crew contributing to this post, could help answer my question from page ten, enquiring about the various deadlines for ballot distribution and action. Now that would be providing me a service.

I have just read a WDMM email posted on another forum intended for their union blokey, makes interesting reading probably accurate info as well, but also sounds a bit militant and threatening too and thats to someone thats supposed to be negotiating for the CC's. The info contained if true sounds pretty bad for VA accounting practices.

I am not going to cut n paste it as its not my place but if this WDMM group of staff truly reflect the feeling of all the others Virgin look screwed.

I hope this doesn't turn too nasty on either side and this doesn't damage any admiration we might have had as pax for the CC's.

The ONLY reason I started up this topic on 25th July, was to keep the pax informed on our pay dispute.

I thought if industrial action did take place it would be nice to give you all the 'heads up' on what is going on.

I did not intend for this to turn into a discussion about the value of crew, or people's personal opinion of cabin crew (which is clearly not very high, from most of the comments on here)

I will not be entering into anymore discussion on the matter until I know from the union what the next step is going to be, and I would urge fellow crew to do the same.

To be fair vscss some of the posts from vs staffers on here have burst our bubbles as well, some of us didn't realise we were championing and adoring some cabin crew that think a lot less of us, hardly warrants a bunch of flowers and a box of choccies does it.

Nice that your intentions were to do us a service about the dispute, but the threat of a strike and posts telling us our flights won't take off without you is hardly a way to make friends even if it does influence people.

We all want whats best for you on here, we don't like the militant
( at least I don't ) stance of WDMM as detailed in letters and emails
on other sites, strange it was thought best not to put them on here. And we don't ( at least I don't ) like being judged or quality assesed
and rated purely on the basis of what route we fly.

The fact is I would like you to get a big fat pay rise today or tommorow from management and would even be prepared to pay a bit more for my flights so you get it, however some of the posts I have read leave me to believe there are cabin crew that think I am just a cruddy passenger and thats not what I want to read.

VSCSS,

Yes I think that there is, not just on this forum, but all over the Internet, that the personal opinions of the CC are not high.

To many who fly once a year, a bad crew can leave a lasting impression compared to pax who fly more regualry and get different levels of service.
This then colours them for the future.
It does not help when CC also on other forums have a go at the Premium pax and treat the MCO route as the one they all want to not fly.
The one thing that comes up time after time is the lack of consistancy and the returning to the UK crews acting like they cannot be bothered with the pax, not just on the MCO route but look at the many trip reports on here to other destinations.

For this state of affairs, you can only blame one set of people, and that is not really the crew, but the management and the training/on board supervision that must be sadly missing.
You are probably an excellent CSS, but unfortunatly, it only takes one rubbish CSS or someone promoted to the position above their abilities to leave the impression that ALL Virgin crew are as bad as the flight the pax have just done.

Only the management can sort this out and they need to urgently.
maybe certain managers need downsizing?

Be honset, Is it a situation that the crew hate the MCO route, for example, so much, that the senior crew members and CSS, palm these off to the younger inexperianced crews because they hate the route so much?
Is there a feeling when doing such routes that its a pain anyway so why bother to give a good service, just instead 'call it in'?

If so, then again, management need to review the reasons and re eductate before you lose the once in a year (or even once in a lifetime) passengers to other airlines and yes, people get a downer on ALL Virgin Cabin crew.