Cabin Crew Pay Update *2nd NOV*

I have lurked around this thread as I can usually see both sides in these situations, and I am glad it wasn't locked so we could keep on top of what was happening. I would love the CC to receive pay increases worthy of their work.

However, I do feel bad now that we are looked down on for being on the MCO route whether we pay to go PE as we are doing in November or UC as we did last November. We are shelling out to go UC to MCO and back from LA next year too. Nice to know what the CC feel about us for paying their wages, however small those may be felt to be. Even the bucket and spade brigade going to MCO pay their wages.

I have read Air Babylon - seems more of it is true than we first thought!![:0]

Edit by Scrooge: correct a spelling error...me correct one..WTF !

[:D]Good reading on our flight in November then - all being well that is!!

Maybe it would be good, if CC actually were paid according to their performance, rather than all receiving the same amount of compensation. This is one of the dangers of unions and CBA's, the good employees are treated like the less good when it comes to compensation, where's the incentive in that?

[Nottingham Nick]

As I see it, the problem with payment by continuous assessment, is just that - each member of the CC will have to be continually assessed!

How many assessors will be on each flight? Who will assess the assessors when their assessments are challenged by the crew that they mark down?

From what I gather, a large proportion of the Senior crew members time is already taken up with paperwork and admin. Surely increasing the bureaucracy would further diminish the time they can dedicate to customer service?

Nick

Perhaps they should use customer feedback forms.[:)]

Here's some customer feedback. If I don't fly to MCO in October because of industrial action, I don't fly Virgin anymore.

You want my custom you give me the service I've paid for and if you don't I'll go to someone who will.

Miopyk[8D]

BA are adding more MCO flights next year on certain days, but only from Gatwick.

[Decker]

AlanA beat you to it Maz [;)]

True, sorry, hadn't noticed on here. Ah well, worth repeating!!!

[Decker]

Welcome on board slebs [;)]

[Nottingham Nick]

As this is already a massive thread, I have split off all reference to Liz & Julie's hilarious book, to this new thread.

Nick

From what I hear, Unite members are being pretty nasty in intimdating crew to vote against the pay deal. Posters being left behind the bar in UC for example. If the strike goes ahead, then the minority in 'Unite' that believe that Virgin is 'hiding' money from the table will be putting the jobs of Virgin staff who have accepted difficult pay deals at risk. Such short sightness never made Virgin, but has a good chance of destroying it. Name a exciting brand managed by a Union.....

[Decker]

Tough call Albert - you've been a member for a good few months now but not posted much. It'd help us hoi polloi if you shared where you are coming from ('from Smurf Land where we belong' doesn't count).

Originally posted by Decker
Tough call Albert - you've been a member for a good few months now but not posted much. It'd help us hoi polloi if you shared where you are coming from ('from Smurf Land where we belong' doesn't count).

The WDMM group are suggesting sir RB is hiding cash offshore to avoid tax and also the company itself are filtering cash through Virgin Nigeria and not sharing the proper profits with Singapore airline.

Seems just a few are prepared to destroy VA if they don't get £28k.

These messages and threatening emails are posted by WDMM on other sites and on its own little site.

If i were VA remanagement I would only deal with the union and sack these renegades who clearly have no loyalty and could ruin everyones jobs. Once the press get wind of what they are saying it could ruin everything for all of them.

Its the same old 'heads in the sand' situation EGG, some think that if they kill off the comapny, ist OK as there are plenty of jobs just waiting for them out there. I'm afraid that's not the case. Rover workers found that out in the end.
In the airline industry, the goings on at XL, Globespan, TCA/TUI, FCA, Monarch and even some of the big ones the trend is removal of full time contracts staff and replace with seasonal short term staff with reductions in staff.
Its all very well saying that other airlines pay better, but not if you cannot get in these airlines!

Has to be said its not the union thats making these claims and threats, no doubt the WDMM brigade of fsm's is scuppering legitimate pay negotiations and no doubt risking a decent resolution for the rest of the cc's.

The latest rumour ( sent around by WDMM ) is that Sir R will be turning up to a meeting of FSM's to explain himself and his own personal financial position, they refer to him as 'Branson' no Sir or Mr, the message is £28K for FSM's or strike strike strike.

Someone needs to let Unite do their job, I think they are having the rug swept away from them by ( some ) the very people they are trying to help.

Very unfair to suggest that this is just a 'brigade of FSM's'. From things posted on other sites WDMM is made up of all ranks & they have feelers in different positions all over the company. Lots of rumours about the whole WDMM & who are running it (could be another Big Airline!!!!!).

As for the meeting with SRB, not that hard to believe as he did it before with the flightdeck during their pay dispute. £28K for an FSM, unbelievable that they don't earn that already as the technicians that fix that cabin & IFE are on over £30K!!!!!

Never been a big lover of Unions & Rover was a good example, as was the recent TV programme about the demise of the Clyde ship building industry, but is WDMM any better????

[RichardMannion]

Originally posted by Denzil
unbelievable that they don't earn that already as the technicians that fix that cabin & IFE are on over £30K!!!!!

Maybe because it's a regarded skilled profession? Maybe because there are not 1000's of people applying to do that role? Supply and demand.

[RichardMannion]

Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
As I see it, the problem with payment by continuous assessment, is just that - each member of the CC will have to be continually assessed!

How many assessors will be on each flight? Who will assess the assessors when their assessments are challenged by the crew that they mark down?

From what I gather, a large proportion of the Senior crew members time is already taken up with paperwork and admin. Surely increasing the bureaucracy would further diminish the time they can dedicate to customer service?

Nick

I'd do it for free. Maybe they should start introducing the 'mystery customer' survey. Lots of other service industries have this concept.

Originally posted by Denzil
Very unfair to suggest that this is just a 'brigade of FSM's'. From things posted on other sites WDMM is made up of all ranks & they have feelers in different positions all over the company. Lots of rumours about the whole WDMM & who are running it (could be another Big Airline!!!!!).

As for the meeting with SRB, not that hard to believe as he did it before with the flightdeck during their pay dispute. £28K for an FSM, unbelievable that they don't earn that already as the technicians that fix that cabin & IFE are on over £30K!!!!!

Never been a big lover of Unions & Rover was a good example, as was the recent TV programme about the demise of the Clyde ship building industry, but is WDMM any better????

Prehaps it would be more fair if they ( WDMM ) posted their mesages on here for all to read then, what I have seen is pretty aggressive and threatening making pretty strong allegations without any substance
from people who won't reveal themselves.

I don't think Sir R has any obligation to explain his own personal finances to anyone. If something is amiss with company accounts its hardly WDMM's place to use that as a weapon or blackmail for a payrise.

as a caveat I would like to stress that personally I would love the crew to get £28K, I just don't like some of the tactics.

Quoted from earlier -

Originally posted by EasygoingeezerHas to be said it's not the union that's making these claims and threats, no doubt the WDMM brigade of fsm's is scuppering legitimate pay negotiations and no doubt risking a decent resolution for the rest of the cc's.

It could be said that the union is not doing it's job adequately and needs a good kick up the @rse which it appears WDMM is doing. As for a brigade of FSM's - I know FSM's, CSS's and Seniors and people from other vocations within Virgin involved with them and the following they have is fantastic. Maybe the company will start to listen - search the archives back to the flight crew disputes a few years back and the deals that were rejected - If you take the time to do that all of a sudden the cabin crews requests are not unreasonable.

Flight crew negotiations are next and then I imagine it wont be long before ground operations are represented by a union - watch this space. I personally believe virgin is in for a big wake up call.

{Edited by Bazz to make quote more apparent}

[Pete]

Originally posted by Voice_of_reason

watch this space. I personally believe virgin is in for a big wake up call.

I only hope that doesn't mean the company implodes if it becomes commercially unviable. It would also suggest a tone of militancy that doesn't harbour a pleasant experience for anyone dealing with the front line. A bit like ex SAS boss, Jan Carizon's Moments of Truth that honey lamb brought to our attention recently.

I had been leaning in favour of the cabin crew position; but I'm a little concerned that there's another agenda at play with the WDMM group springing up to fight both the management and the union.

Originally posted by voice of reasonIt could be said that the union is not doing it's job adequately and needs a good kick up the @rse which it appears WDMM is doing.

They seem very opinionated these crew people don't they,

Union isn't doing its job properly
VA management isn't doing its job properly
VA accountants arn't doing their job correctly
Passengers arn't being passengers correctly on MCO routes

Won't be long before the cabin crew will be flying the planes at this rate.

Having looked at the WDMM webpage and noticed that only 60 people have bothered to use the online polls out of is it 2000+ crew members
it doesn't look that strong to me, you get more votes on a V-flyer poll asking about amenity packs.

Pay disputes are about 'negotiation' not victory or death of the company.

If the Union is prooving to be inept then pick another, you can't legally strike without one.

{Edited by Bazz to make quote more apparent.}

Hands up all the Virgin customers who have voted on the WDMM polls[}:)]

Hands up all the Virgin customers who have voted on the WDMM polls more than once[}:)][}:)]

Hands up all the Virgin customers who will be voting on the WDMM polls again[}:)][}:)][}:)]

Isn't free speech wonderfull

Miopyk[8D]

[Bazz]

Oh short sighted one, I can say, honestly, hand on heart, no to all three of your questions, so please don't make assumptions and cloud your judgment.