Cabin Crew Pay Update *2nd NOV*

[Scrooge]

The problem is as I have said before..the crew goes on strike they lose.

Here is what will happen.

When the crew vote for the strike pax will begin to book on BA etc.
When there is a strike pax will be transfered to BA etc.
Management etc will continue to be paid, the crew will not.
SRB and SQ have a lot more money in the bank then the crew.
If the strike goes on long enough the crews will be replaced.
Who will crack first ?

The only way the crew can get themselves out of this spot is to sit down, forget about striking and work with management to find a deal that both sides can live with.

[Decker]

The WDMM poll has conclusively, regretfully, shot itself in the foot and now is of little relevance to management or crew. The people running the poll have demonstrated that they will remove votes they do not like in favour of votes they do like. Now fine, I accept that there is a possibility that V-Flyer skewed the results but this raises many issues :-

I very much doubt many V-Flyers BOTHERED to do this - so to skew the vote the vote must have been non-representative of the '2,000+' union members.

By indicating that only people coming from specific referrers are welcome the organisers set out their stall for the result they want. Funnily if you only publicise an election in Labour Social Clubs you're not going to see a huge swing to the right are you?

By being prepared to announce results that exclude votes from a specific referrer the organisers invalidate the announcement. How do they know that the crew who read this forum were not voting and are now not having their votes ignored?

Did they exclude ALL multiple postings from one IP address? Again invalidating the statistical relevance of any of their results - many ISPs provide a proxy so multiple different users may seem to come from the same IP address.

Frankly this was the work of a rank amateur who seems to be woefully out of their depth. WDMM cannot claim to be representative of anything based upon that poll other than representative of how badly you can screw up if you don't think things through. I'm surprised they didn't claim 100% in favour and eliminate all the other no votes for 'technical reasons'. The result would be equally as reliable.

*Edited to add*
What they SHOULD have done was invalidated this 'ballot' and worked out a way to hold it securely to at least restore some credibility to the exercise.

91 votes out of a possible 2500 wooo wooo we are so powerfull, not[:o)]

Come on start negotiating and stop ranting, the management are even going to pay you for going to the meeting and give you a bonus for going.....show some class and don't act in the same way as your misguided view of a mco passenger.[;)]

Jaw jaw, not war war[^]

A tad off topic but might be of interest to the MCO pax, not my opinion but that of 'a senior crew member'. The MCO flights are not popular because they are hard work & very busy flights (LGW config). On the plus side they are good fun & most of the pax are happy, going on their family holidays. Perhaps those that slag these pax off don't really want to be doing the job or feel holiday pax are below them & they are climbing the social ladder above them.

So i would say this is not a bad view of the pax, but a sad view of the crew who think the are so much better!! Would i feel insulted as pax on an MCO, no. Would i say this is typical of a large percentage of crew, no.

As for management comments, it wasn't the previously mentioned 'pond life' but more to do with statements that the whole pay revue & it's acceptance was a done deal.

Whilst plenty have commented on the fact that pay negotiations are exactly that, i think you'll find that both sides just aren't having decent dialogue. The union is saying nothing & it's members are feeling a bit 'out in the cold'. These talks & the strength of feeling are all new to VS & the current CC management, you could say it's time for them to manage. For the sake of the airline lets hope they do soon.

Denzil prehaps the management would rather talk to its staff than a union, I see that as more of a sign of respect than weakness on the management side.

[preiffer]

Completely off-topic again, but WDMM would surely have a little more impact if the site itself looked a little more professional than something comparible to that which came from a 10 year-old's bedroom? [:0]

I mean, come on guys - it doesn't even fit across most monitors (1024x768 is still the most popular resolution). Although I know web development skills aren't the primary asset to WDMM's cause, it could look a LOT less 'rank amateur' than it does at present with even a few simple tweaks (liking that phrase, Decker [y])


TBH, and genuinely, there are loads of people on here that could help out if needed - (if someone wants to ask...)

Now thats an example of a class act[^]

For those who are math geeks like me, Internet polls are the clear definition of a response bias in voting theory. Because there is no kind of simple random sampling of the population of cabin crew it's impossible for it to give any kind of accurate measurement of the general opinion. Also, the only people motivated to respond to the poll are usually the ones with the most radical opinions, thereby creating bias that way.

[Decker]

and the latest offer is out on iFly... initial murmurings are that it favours FSMs quite heavily - which for the good FSMs can only be a good thing. Standby remains though... Weird thing is increasing FSM trip pay - makes a slight mockery of the pretence that it is there to cover out of pocket expenses rather than just a way of paying more money without incurring additional NIC contributions.

This would doubtless explain why they wanted the FSM/CSS meet...

From a management perspective I can see where this comes from - ensure you keep your longest serving crew happy, give something aspirational to the next level down and don't worry too much about those who are still in it as a lifestyle choice. Cynical but...

[fozzyo]

Also, if they can sort out all the FSM's to get them to the same high standards that some have the quality of service across the board will take a big boost. Just about every flight with excellent service has an excellent FSM.

From what I can see detailed and what the crews were upset about
the new offer if accepted would give both sides some dignity if accepted, its a little give and take by the look of it as opposed to a lot of take by management and not quite as much as the silly money and demands 'some' staff were ranting about ( thats when they wern't gobbing off about clients )

It might be worth switching unions in future would be my advice.

My guess is this post will get erm...3 thumbs down[:o)]

I have just read the new offer and I like it. I think it is one we should all accept.
VS have now took onboard what we have said so now we need to meet them half way.

I will be voting YES. I urge you all to do the same and the next time the pay offer comes up in 2 years VS will be in better position and so will will and they will know how serious we can be.

VOTE YES.

VITBITB! [y]

GJ

[^]VITB[^]

45.

Looks like a move in the right direction. Lot's of whinging on other forums that the deal is bias towards CSS/FSM's, as much as anything i think this is because it's these ranks that are suffering in comparison to other airlines.

One big move forward is looking at a future ways of discussing issues of pay & conditions, so a leason has been learned.

Will it get the yes vote, i think so, but not by the majority VS expect.

Thumbs up for VITB it is then[y]

Originally posted by virgin is the best
VOTE YES.

[y]

- Senior Cabin Crew

Interesting results so far, can't help but think that perhaps the hard working CSS's & FSM's have been undersold here!!!!! As we ALL know it's them that make the difference to the flight in general, have put in the years & whose happiness, experience & confidence in the job will flow through the whole crew.

Not sure about the rest of you, but i would rather have an FSM running the show that is earning their worth & not having to sell 'knock off' handbags from HKG or PVG to pay their mortgage.

Having looked into the salary it would appear that the starting pay at VS is fair, but as you climb the ranks it starts to fall short with no payments for length of service etc that other airlines recognise. That said they have the CSS & FSM's by the short & curlys as unlike other jobs, most CC have to start at the bottom if they move airline. Using Pilots & Engineers as an example, they have skills that transfer & that are in demand, hence VS pay a more competitive package.

Regardless of the vote outcome, a strike will not happen & i'm 99% confident in that.

Stirring?

45.

tut tut Denzil I see your fanning then flames on other forums as well[n]...whats in it for you?

A certain someone is an utter knob.

Since I don't troll the other fora that might address this matter, what does most of the chatter look like as of now? Positive for the offer?

GJ

Good that you don't stoop to personal insults GJ!!!!!!

As for fanning flames, seeing wood for tree's also springs to mind & please forum, not forums!!! Or would you really prefer your cabin service & safety to be carried out by someone that just see's VS as a taxi between sunlounger & nightclub!!!

Originally posted by Denzil
Good that you don't stoop to personal insults GJ!!!!!!

Thank you. I keep my sentiments broad and non-directed for a reason. No one need feel insulted as no one is directly named. Let's remain calm, now, and on topic.

GJ

[RichardMannion]

Originally posted by Denzil
[Or would you really prefer your cabin service & safety to be carried out by someone that just see's VS as a taxi between sunlounger & nightclub!!!

In all honesty, on a number of the sectors Sarah and I have done this year, I have honestly felt this to be the case with some of the crew.

Not really an insult as a door is of little use without one & i'd be lost without mine!!!!

Back to your question, opinion would appear split & that is direct from VS CC members.