Cabin Crew Pay Update *2nd NOV*

[RichardMannion]

Originally posted by Denzil
I think perhaps the CC are more concerned that 4.8% of very little = very little!!!

So what do they want? The question has been asked multiple times and no real answer. If they think they are going to get double digit growth then they are on a different planet. Given some of the attitudes of crew towards customers that have posted in this thread and over on some of the other public sites, I'd give them a triple digit negative growth rate, we call it -100% and sack them. They don't deserve to be working in a customer service role. Of course they have chosen to 'hide' behind pseuydonyms instead of using their real names.

Originally posted by RichardMannion
Of course they have chosen to 'hide' behind pseuydonyms instead of using their real names.

Sir, I would gently remind you that none of them have Your Grace's proud name, and would thus be more likely to hide behind the woolly cloud of pseudonymity. [;)]

GJ

Do we have any hard facts on the alleged differences in pay between VS and other airlines?

There are all these rumours that BA earn £10K more which almost equates to twice as much (before tax), but is there any like for like comparison eg. junior vs. junior that is actually accurate?

45.

Your math is top notch Alan!!! I see pprune has a writer with much the same anti-union views as yourself???

[RichardMannion]

Originally posted by Denzil
Your math is top notch Alan!!! I see pprune has a writer with much the same anti-union views as yourself???

I see cabincrew.com has a writer with an identical username as yours that seems to be playing sides.

Richard in answer to your post this is what I would have liked to seen in the pay offer...

As a manager a salary that reflected this, presently instructors in the Base (our training centre) are paid more, if it all kicks off in the Base they can call security/999, I do not have that luxury. Yes I hear you all say,if it is so great then become an instructor but I love my job, just would like a managers salary that is comparable with all the other (seems like millions) managers we have at Virgin.

I'd have also liked to have seen my trip pay pensionable as well. That in fact would have swung the vote for me, it was offered in our last deal and then removed from this latest offer.

I do not want to strike, I don't want to spoil peoples plans/holidays/Christmas but I have worked for Virgin for 11 years and have constantly been told there is no money, times are hard etc etc. I have remained loyal to the airline and I always give 100% onboard yet have to chase up crew down payments, missing allowance, missing Christmas payments. As an airline we are not running efficiently at all, there is money there but they would rather invest in stupid signs that say 'hello gorgeous' and throw nice heros parties than give a wage that reflects commitment and dedication. I am sorry if your experiences of Virgin recently have not been positive but I find your posts actually quite frustrating when I know that the flights I work on I give it my best. Please don't tar us all with the same brush. Myself and many of my colleagues and friends really still give it our best shot out on line, we are not greedy people, we just are sick of being broke!

Well said southernbelle

[RichardMannion]

Originally posted by southernbelle
Richard in answer to your post this is what I would have liked to seen in the pay offer...

As a manager a salary that reflected this, presently instructors in the Base (our training centre) are paid more, if it all kicks off in the Base they can call security/999, I do not have that luxury. Yes I hear you all say,if it is so great then become an instructor but I love my job, just would like a managers salary that is comparable with all the other (seems like millions) managers we have at Virgin.

I'd have also liked to have seen my trip pay pensionable as well. That in fact would have swung the vote for me, it was offered in our last deal and then removed from this latest offer.

I do not want to strike, I don't want to spoil peoples plans/holidays/Christmas but I have worked for Virgin for 11 years and have constantly been told there is no money, times are hard etc etc. I have remained loyal to the airline and I always give 100% onboard yet have to chase up crew down payments, missing allowance, missing Christmas payments. As an airline we are not running efficiently at all, there is money there but they would rather invest in stupid signs that say 'hello gorgeous' and throw nice heros parties than give a wage that reflects commitment and dedication. I am sorry if your experiences of Virgin recently have not been positive but I find your posts actually quite frustrating when I know that the flights I work on I give it my best. Please don't tar us all with the same brush. Myself and many of my colleagues and friends really still give it our best shot out on line, we are not greedy people, we just are sick of being broke!

And it is crew like yourself that I genuinely feel sorry for. Yes it is wrong for me to tar you all with the same brush; Problem is that I've seen a growing number of crew here and over on other sites that show such an attitude and disdain for passengers it's outrageous.

'Those Gold passengers'
'The bucket and spade passengers'
'Hate the Orlando routes'
etc.

I've just been reading a topic over on CabinCrew.com where VS crew are insisting that they are still working when they are downroute as they are inconvencied because they can't pop round their friends for a cup of tea.

I think the Heroes party is actually a good exercise as its a reward for those that have delivered stellar service - that's my view of course! [;)] I agree that there is some degree of unneccesary branding/spending as such, but at the same time some crew need to understand the bigger picture that VS has to invest in its facilities such as the LHR CH to be able to retain and attract the desired premium customers.

Value your honesty though, and the pensionable trip pay element seems fair to me. It may be true that I have had a bad run this year of VS flights, but its a worrying sign to be honest when it's becoming a normality that the service on board is going to be compromised in some way where as in the past it was the exception.

Thanks,
Richard

I am really not sure where all this Orlando stuff has come from...Orlando's are popular now, decent allowance and a great hotel. True they were unpopular but we worked bloody hard, stayed in a rubbish hotel and got low allowances. Now they are worthwhile and from what I can gather, pretty popular with the crew.

Fully support any investment in the company and I believe that the majority of my colleagues feel the same. We are proud to work for an innovative airline and I think the clubhouse was a terrific investment. Heros...well don't get me started on them, paying someone 10k for doing their job, a juniors yearly salary and then telling us there is no money in the pot, just doesn't wash with me. That's all I am going to say re Heroes......for now anyway[:)]

[Darren Wheeler]

I can see how the Heros bit can grate. We have a thing call Legends and it rewards about 100 people each year. Great if you are one of the 100, but a bit of a kick for the other 5900 or so. Come nomination time it turns into a mutual fan club. Teams all nominate each other.

Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
We have a thing call Legends and it rewards about 100 people each year. Great if you are one of the 100, but a bit of a kick for the other 5900 or so. Come nomination time it turns into a mutual fan club. Teams all nominate each other.

I just remain a legend in my own mind and by-pass all the formality of nominating, etc. [:p]

Back OT: It's tough to get reward and recognition right. First off, not all of any workforce will like the reward ('A free trip to the Bahamas? I hate the Bahamas!') and a company also has to be sure the playing field is level (so the salesperson with a crappy territory doesn't always lose to the one with New York City, etc). I suspect that anyone winning a 10K bonus would find it a reasonable investment and those who do not win it may be less inclined to think so. [:?]

GJ

There might even be a Denzil on other forums, could be an interest in varied subjects??

Must say that Southernbelle's post is spot on & should go a long way to proving that a lot of people DO care about the passengers. All the points made reflect those of a 'very good friend' of mine, especially about Orlando flights.

Originally posted by Denzil
I think perhaps the CC are more concerned that 4.8% of very little = very little!!!

2.475% of very little is even less than 4.8% - and I'm still waiting for my backdated raise (from 1st April - is this a belated April Fool's joke???)

Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
I can see how the Heros bit can grate. We have a thing call Legends and it rewards about 100 people each year. Great if you are one of the 100, but a bit of a kick for the other 5900 or so. Come nomination time it turns into a mutual fan club. Teams all nominate each other.

And we have something called Fish - please, please don't ask.....[?]

[Decker]

And Southernbelle highlights a dilemma here. Those who know her know that she (and Tinkerbelle and many of the other crew who post here) deserve pay that is MORE than industry standards because they give their all when working. If Heroes came on top of a package that was deemed fair and equitable it would be seen as a nice 'extra' but I can see that it is not a replacement for a decent package.

Originally posted by southernbelle
Fully support any investment in the company and I believe that the majority of my colleagues feel the same. We are proud to work for an innovative airline and I think the clubhouse was a terrific investment. Heros...well don't get me started on them, paying someone 10k for doing their job, a juniors yearly salary and then telling us there is no money in the pot, just doesn't wash with me. That's all I am going to say re Heroes......for now anyway[:)]

Southernbelle - not all of the people here are critical, I am fully behind you. I think your attitude and comments speak wonders. Just as there are a few CC giving you all a bad name here, at least some of us can put it into perspective and understand that means a few vocal crew who are not necessarily representative of all.

[Decker]

Oh yes, and pensionable down route payments AND pay scales with spinal points so that seniority in a grade is reflected in the take home pay both seem eminently reasonable.

[Pete]

It's my personal experience of people like Southernbelle, Jetstreamer and a few others on here that are the only reasons I could possibly have in 'keeping the faith' in VS at the moment. Having embroiled myself in a couple of discussions on CabinCrew.com, I believe I've been shown the true colours of certain posters; and it's a bitterness that can't sit well in a customer-facing role.

I don't think anyone should underestimate the damage just the threat of this strike is doing. Not only is it having a direct result on the bottom line through lost bookings - and that's lost business which potentially won't come back for a long time - but there's increasingly a polarisation between staff internally which is breeding an animosity between departments, customers and even within the ranks of cabin crew themselves. The early bricks are already being thrown. And the longer this dispute rumbles on the worse the language will get - like a cancer eating away from the inside.

It isn't going to be pretty, and isn't something I particularly want to experience onboard.

[Nottingham Nick]

Totally agree with you, Pete and at the risk of sounding like a broken record (again [:D] ), I will say again 'Miners Strike 1983/84'.

Before anyone says that the comparison isn't relevant, I will just say that the scars of the strike are still there over 20 years later. If worker is set against worker, the memories don't fade easily. Add to that, the fact that there is no longer a deep mined coal industry to speak of in the UK, and you will see where I am coming from.

If this dispute goes on much longer, the resentment of 'us and them' will set in deeper, friendships will be destroyed, and the famous Virgin Spirit will be gone.

The one thing I would point out though, is that it is very easy to think that the vocal few on cc.com and the members of crew that Richard encountered on recent flights are now the norm. I would argue very strongly against that. My recent encounters with VS staff have been almost 100% positive, there are a lot of great people out there wearing the red uniform.

I will stick by the company as long as I can, but if the strike goes ahead I don't think that will be very long. Only because I don't think there will be much of a company to stick by after the strike is over.

Nick

Hi all,

I have been reading this with great interest and decided to join today to air my views so please don't give me a hard time.

Firstly, I am not Management. I'm just a regular Junior who loves my job and the company I work for. Virgin has been the only airline I have ever wanted to work for because of the brand values and the 'wow' factor. I no there is not as much 'wow' factor now but there is something about Virgin that I love and I pressume its the same with all the V-flyers out there otherwise you would fly someone else?

I shall not be voting to go on strike because I believe this was a fair offer in the current climates, however, I do believe certain factors need to be addressed which can be done at the next pay talks.

Damage is already being done by the media getting hold of this and I am sure VS is losing customers as we speak because they don't want their holiday/business plans ruined.

V-flyers have already been saying that perhaps they should set up BA-flyer on other forums. Some of the comments I have seen on here and other forums have really shocked me. Crew need to remember who pays our wages and we need the 'V-flyers' (sorry to keep on refering to you all as this) and big corporate companies to keep on flying VS. We can't afford a strike, we can't afford to make silly comments about our customers and we certainly can't afford to lose some of our most loyal customers to other airlines.

I have an email from Senior Management stating that if the ballot is returned with a 'No' vote then the current deal of 4.8% will be honoured. So ignore all this Galley FM about the company giving us 2% if it is a 'No' vote.

Guys think long and hard about this! Its a no vote from me, but whatever you decide to do, happy flying!

[RichardMannion]

Originally posted by kbw271186

V-flyers have already been saying that perhaps they should set up BA-flyer on other forums. Some of the comments I have seen on here and other forums have really shocked me. Crew need to remember who pays our wages and we need the 'V-flyers' (sorry to keep on refering to you all as this) and big corporate companies to keep on flying VS. We can't afford a strike, we can't afford to make silly comments about our customers and we certainly can't afford to lose some of our most loyal customers to other airlines.

Mmm, so what do you make of the comments made by crew such as 'vscc'? Why the polarity in views? There seems to be a spooky co-incidence with IP addresses.

Comments that they posted were the icing on the cake for me, and I'm embracing the future with BA.

Originally posted by Denzil
Your math is top notch Alan!!! I see pprune has a writer with much the same anti-union views as yourself???

Why thank you for the compliment Denzil.

I cannot see on PPrune any other comment the same as the one you have replied to.
Not anyi Union me, just anti stupid strikes which no-one will benefit from

I'm just glad my friend Warkman, from the RAF, isn't going on strike!

And Nottingham Nick -- if this is like the miner's strike, do we get Red Wedge concerts? Count me in!!! [y]

Now, back to the gravity of the matter at hand: does anyone have real -- not anecdotal or 'gut sense' -- data that VS bookings are falling behind? I've seen the comment...but I can say that here in the USA the coverage of the threatened strike has been very minimal. I suspect some well-informed travel agents may be able to warn their customers, but so many people book their own tickets that I would not be surprised if many pax don't know a thing about all this as they push the 'purchase tickets' button on the VS site, Expedia, et al. This will be a nasty surprise for many if there is a strike.

That said, the press coverage in the UK might be more robust than that over here and perhaps any revenue loss that does happen will be weighted to the UK?

GJ

Well if you Google News virgin+strike you get a grand total of 143 responses, with only two of the top ten actually being relevant (and including 'Spice Girls strike deal with Virgin' !). I'd hardly say it was plastered over the UK press yet ... and as you say GJ those that book themselves just may not be aware of any threat.

If you include forums such as Tripadvisor that reaches a lot of people.