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#425506 by Nottingham Nick
12 Nov 2007, 16:01
Remembering how this thread nearly got way out of hand, can I urge people to be cautious and polite in their replies to this post, please? [8D][:D]

Nick
#425507 by daharris
12 Nov 2007, 16:03
I bet Ryanair would if tey could get away with it [:D]
#425520 by easygoingeezer
12 Nov 2007, 17:43
Does that mean thin people get a discount?

My love handles travel upper so I don't care anyway.
#425525 by pkatmk
12 Nov 2007, 19:02
In principle its fair.

The simplest way of charging heavier passengers more, is for airlines to offer a range of seats with varying sizes (extra width as well as pitch) and to charge according to this extra space together with an allowance for the likely extra weight. Airlines can then publish a maximum recommended weight (or waist size) for each seat type.

I think a lot of overweight people would be very happy with this arrangement.

The idea that an extra charge will somehow deter obesity is however naive in the extreme.
#425570 by jerseyboy
12 Nov 2007, 22:24
I would be keen to know how they would measure obesity. Would it be based purely on someone's weight and no other factor?

Would they consider such factors as height, age, physical ailments or drug therapies?
Would you have to have a body mass index done at the gate or before check in?

Would you have to declare your weight during booking[?] And if you book your flight 11 months in advance and lost weight could you claim some tax back?

Would they triturate the tax in accordance with the amount of weight you are over you calculated BMI?

I according to a basic BMI am classed as obese however the limitations of body mass indexing does not account for muscle wastage I suffered and general weight gain due to immobility after suffering a blood clot in the brain after a bad flight experience which left me immobile for nearly two years and although I only need to loose another 3lbs to lose my title of obese would it be fair to tax me?

Also other limitations exist with BMI calculations and its usage within groups of people such as athletic types and the old and immobile. So would the airlines account for all these scenarios before applying the tax?


My personal opinion of this is what a load of cobblers. [|:)]Obesity is a physical condition with many different causes it's not just a case of someone eating too much[|:)].

So who would you tax and would there be tax refunds for non-primary diet induced obesity?
Would you get a discount for being anorexic?

Taxing obesity may have a reverse effect than that desired by Dr Tickell[:?]. Less money to spend on food may encourage a less nutritious more affordable diet thus compounding the weight problem of an obese person who may have limited income.

I think it would be far better to tax airlines on fuel than tax people for being non-conformist to the rule of NORM.

Rant over
Jerseyboy who despite eating 3 pieces of fruit for breakfast, a sandwich and fruit for lunch and a low fat low protein non dairy supper with 2 veg and an average of 3ltrs of water per day is just a little bit obese but not totally fat.[ii]
#425571 by easygoingeezer
12 Nov 2007, 22:30
personally I find chunky quite appealing.[}:)]
#425576 by n/a
12 Nov 2007, 22:50
No doubt about it, one gets fat eating EGGs...

But, to be on topic, my view of this, after maaaaaaany conversations on this very topic, is that IN GENERAL:

* A majority of larger people hate this idea and feel attacked personally
* Thinner people stuck in middle seats between large people support it, at least in concept
* Everyone I spoke to, regardless of size, feels slightly uneasy about its application in practice because it can lead to loss of dignity for the larger person when the correct delicacy is not brought to bear by staff, not because it's unfair to charge for two seats when that's what a large person fills.

I've noticed that even in the past couple years, the number of larger people I have been sat next to has increased. I've even found myself being pleasantly surprised now when the posteriors, muffin tops and generously proportioned arms of a fellow pax are not pressed into me (Y, of course). On one occasion in the past year I have asked to be reseated because the person next to me was completely in my space due to their incredible size and this request was met, although not without some difficulty due to the fullness of the flight. It was an AS SEA-EWR flight so I simply was not going to be pressed into the wall of the plane by this person for 5 hours, and shame on AS for not making them pay for the seat (mine) they were also claiming with their corpulence -- it would have been better for the person involved (I am sure they knew what was going on) and for me, the paying pax.

Please note I am not addressing how people get obese -- that to me is not germane. I don't care if one has a thyroid set to Chernobyl levels or likes to eat Cadbury Fruit & Nut bars till they pop. The fact is, some people are bigger than the seats on offer and a solution that embraces common sense and personal dignity must be applied.

GJ
#425577 by Guest
12 Nov 2007, 23:01
Well said GJ ! Couldn't have put it better from one who is slightly larger than Size 0 I applaud your approach.
#425578 by slinky09
12 Nov 2007, 23:07
Originally posted by easygoingeezer
Does that mean thin people get a discount?

My love handles travel upper so I don't care anyway.


I like this - and if I manage to lose weight before my next flight then on weight in (or check in) I get a refund [:p]
#425579 by jerseyboy
12 Nov 2007, 23:08
Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
No doubt about it, one gets fat eating EGGs...
Please note I am not addressing how people get obese -- that to me is not germane. The fact is, some people are bigger than the seats on offer and a solution that embraces common sense and personal dignity must be applied.

GJ


Would it not be more acceptable then for airlines to offer larger/wider seats? As even before becoming 30.2 on my B.M.I I when sat in economy and even upper class found the seat to be a little too tight for comfort.
#425580 by maz
12 Nov 2007, 23:12
I can see both sides of the arguement like many folk I guess, and would hate to see the larger person being ridiculed. However, as the general population is getting bigger and bigger than something needs to be done, and I don't think the airline companies are going to make bigger seats for all are they?[:D]
#425581 by preiffer
12 Nov 2007, 23:14
If I recall, the UCS design actually had to be revised to accommodate 'larger passengers' (280lbs+ sticks in my mind). The 'lifting mechanism' wasn't originally up to it, so before launch, they made a quick tweak (presumably at considerable cost).

In other words, all other passengers are literally funding the lifting and hauling of others' a*ses on the plane... [:0]


Sorry, but I'm 100% of the view of keeping airline seats as they are now, width-wise. IF and WHEN I can't fit in one, I KNOW I have to do something about my size and shape - please, people, use it as a benchmark!
#425582 by jerseyboy
12 Nov 2007, 23:25
Originally posted by preiffer
If I recall, the UCS design actually had to be revised to accommodate 'larger passengers' (280lbs+ sticks in my mind).


But I am only 229lbs
#425584 by RichardMannion
12 Nov 2007, 23:31
But hold on, why should airlines make the seats bigger, and therefore be unable to carry as many passengers therefore pushing the cost per seat up? Airlines do have seats with more space, in business and first. I'm already tired of subsidising many other activities through what I pay (e.g. the classic 'free kids places' thing, where in reality the cost is absorbed into adult prices), and am taxed (e.g. I don't have children, so can I get the education spend element returned?).

It may sound rude and arrogant, but I'm not that interested in why/how someone is unable to fit in a seat - simple fact is that they don't. What is known is that the heavier a plane is, the more fuel it will consume.

What about this then - average passenger weight for UK is decided upon, and then airline factors in your luggage allowance. That's your lot before you have to pay excess baggage. So if average is say 100Kg and airline gives you 50Kg of luggage then your total is 150kg overall, if you weigh 120kg, then you now only have 30kg of luggage allowance.
#425585 by preiffer
12 Nov 2007, 23:31
Originally posted by jerseyboy
But I am only 229lbs

...then your a*se is free [:p]
#425591 by jerseyboy
12 Nov 2007, 23:53
Originally posted by preiffer
Originally posted by jerseyboy
But I am only 229lbs

...then your a*se is free [:p]


My derriere was not tight in the seat [xx(]it was upper torso and shoulder/elbow room that was tight.

My derriere is quite compact for such a chunky guy [:D]
#425593 by Glider Pilot
13 Nov 2007, 00:07
I think that if you cannot fit into your seat with the armrest down
you should have to buy 2 seats. The majority of over weight people
it is self inflicted anyway so why should i have them takeing over my
seat. Its a sensitive subject but i dont feel the above is unreasonable.

After all airlines charge people for excess baggage....
#425617 by jerseyboy
13 Nov 2007, 10:30
Originally posted by Glider Pilot
I think that if you cannot fit into your seat with the armrest down
you should have to buy 2 seats. The majority of over weight people
it is self inflicted anyway so why should i have them takeing over my
seat. Its a sensitive subject but i dont feel the above is unreasonable.

After all airlines charge people for excess baggage....

Two upper class suites yes i think that's going to be very practical[?]
#425629 by HighFlyer
13 Nov 2007, 11:17
Originally posted by jerseyboy

Two upper class suites yes i think that's going to be very practical[?]


There are the double suites at the back of a 744 [:D]

I think the point being made is that if you cant fit into the seat onboard an airline, regardless of the reasons why, however unfortunate, then you should not be flying.

Thanks,
Sarah
#425632 by ZippyUK
13 Nov 2007, 11:47
As well as a 'weigh-in' there should also be a 'fit through the hoop' test to determine seating suitability so as to avoid spill-over onto adjacent passengers.
#425633 by HighFlyer
13 Nov 2007, 11:50
Originally posted by ZippyUK
As well as a 'weigh-in' there should also be a 'fit through the hoop' test to determine seating suitability so as to avoid spill-over onto adjacent passengers.


I can just see this scene at LHR, with the Animal Magic theme tune playing as Johnny Morris does a running commentary as all the passengers arrive and have to be weighed and pass through a hoop [:D] [:D]

Thanks,
Sarah
#425646 by Scrooge
13 Nov 2007, 13:42
As Nick pointed ou, this topic has come up before.

I will relate the story of a friend of mine who is large...well no he is massive...

He always buys 2 seats, he knows he cannot fit into a regular coach seat so for his own comfort he buys 2 [y]

The majority of larger people know that this is the way to go, however people are also looking for the cheap way out. As I now can fit in a VS coach seat in 'comfort' I am not to worried about this, however I am sure it will give some pause for thought.
#425678 by ZippyUK
13 Nov 2007, 16:52
Originally posted by Scrooge
As Nick pointed ou, this topic has come up before.

I will relate the story of a friend of mine who is large...well no he is massive...

He always buys 2 seats, he knows he cannot fit into a regular coach seat so for his own comfort he buys 2 [y]




Does he eat the two meals he is entitled to?? [?]
#425679 by Scrooge
13 Nov 2007, 17:37
Well it depends, on a domestic flight the problem is no meals.

On an international yes he does, he also claims both sets of mileage and TP's.
Virgin Atlantic

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