'"he wont put his seat up!'"

I am zen.....ohmmmmmmmm...

As for Y, yes, alas, there are far too many times (read: once or twice) that I find myself in coach. I buy a coach seat, but given my status on AS, I am very often bumped up. When buying online with AS, they show you a range of fares and the two lowest fare codes do not qualify for instant upgrade, but if the little gold 'MVP' symbol is by a flight #, and you buy a higher Y fare code, you get an instant upgrade...usually about 50 - 100 more than a cheaper code. That said, even at the lowest code, I find I get the bump up. Not as often, though, on long flights...people tend to pay for the assurance of F on 5 hour slogs, but not me. As long as I have an up-front, aisle seat in Y, I tend to be fine. There's more than you wanted to know, I reckon! [:p]

GJ

I always explained to the passenger that there isn't much I could do but explained that they have the right to recline also, if they were starting to get irate about it then I'd have a polite word with the passenger in front to see if they will consider reclining a little less.

If the flight wasn't full I would point out available seats to the passenger and apologise to them. If they were already shouting and screaming and it was an early stage in the flight I would ask permission then take the passenger in-front to PE and make sure the passenger concerned heard about it. Usually the passenger would then calm down and when returning would sometimes apologise or just keep their head down.

It's a difficult situation, there's no one time where we can please everyone at once. If it's too hot, someone's always cold, etc. We do try our best to accommodate everyone and there are situations like this that no matter what you do someone's going to end up displeased.

Good topic and interesting to see the public view; I'm not tall, have never had a problem with legroom and rather snobbishly haven't travelled economy that much so wouldn't necessarily be able to 'think like a customer'

What do you normally do, Johnvscrew?

I'm sure that the T&C's on rail don't guarantee the seat - just the journey unless you have a reservation.


Right---but they still charge you for a seat--it's not as if they say, whoops, we've run out of seats-so we'll charge you a SRO fare instead--rather like a full cabin Y which also challenges the quality of the journey.

RR

I'm not convinced about the use of the knee defenders. But I assume the person using them doesn't then recline their seat.[}:)]

I have to admit when I have flown with BA those passengers who hadn't already done so were told to put their seats upright during meal times.[y]

Originally posted by RobL
I'm not convinced about the use of the knee defenders. But I assume the person using them doesn't then recline their seat.[}:)]

I am glad you asked that question. My practice, 100% of the time, is to stand and ask the person behind me, with a smile, if I might recline my seat halfway. I have yet to be refused. I then recline my seat halfway.

GJ

very clever - he says rubbing his chin [:D]

I just keep my knees in the way and stare at the guy when he looks back at me having failed to fully recline his seat [V]. Seems to work.

Personal space (or lack of) is the reason I try not to fly economy (for flights over about 2 hours...). Life is just so much easier without stressing about what people are doing to you and worrying what you might be doing to others... ok the better meals and lounges are nice, but by far the best thing about flying Business is having reasonable pesonal space...

With the increasing 'me!' culture, I am sure that 'air rage' will only increase... [B)]

Boo

It would be nice if the people with 'thats why I fly UC' comments keep them to themselves or at least post them in one of the less public parts of this site. After all these boards are for everyone who flies not just those up the front and some may not take them as a joke, I disagree that this site is just for those in UC but comments like that,even if said in jest, can go a long way to convincing lurkers that this is a UC only club and thus not joining this great community. After all we are not a bunch of snobs on here.

--Rant Off--

To answer the question in hand.

DUring meal service I think its only right to put all seats in the up right position- as the inflight announcement tells pax to do.

Out of meal service my answer is- well if the guy in front has reclined, I will follow suit. After all in Y the amount of recline isn't great and thus, IMHO, doesn't make watching the IFE or having a drink any harder. Plus, call me silly, but by being reclined I feel like I have a bit more space.

Got to be honest and say I haven't flown long haul economy for quite a few years[:I]

However on the rare occasions Decker makes me fly PE (yup he can be a meany sometimes)I always recline my seat to sleep or to listen to my iPod - it's much more comfortable. I put my seat up for the meal service, but I really don't care if the person behind me has problems seeing their screen, and I don't care if the person in front of me reclines from the off. As far as I'm concerned everyone pays for their seat and should be able to use it as they wish (within reason obv).

Mrs D

Just read previous post - it's not snobbery, it's simply that it's difficult to answer questions if you are used to flying in one class and not another. I can't comment on Virgin Economy because I don't fly in economy on long haul - I'm quite happy to fly economy on flights of 5 hours or less, and often do.

I'm sorry if my post has put people potential new members off, anyone who knows me can certainly verify I'm a plain down to earth girl (definitely not a snob) who saves like a mad woman to be able to fly premium (or even UC,not for the 'luxury' factor but more from a 'preventative' point of view) - I have varous medical conditions where to sit for a long time in a seat with not so much leg room does me no good at all, and having suffered a DVT I try and take every precaution I possibly can to try and ensure I do not suffer that again - wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Clare

[mitchja]

If airlines dont want pax to recline, then (as already mentioned) they should remove the recline from their economy seats.

If I fly economy (or Premium) I always try and grab either an exit row or bulk head row seat so no-one is in front of me. I do recline my seat but will put it upright for the meal.

If I cant get an exit row or bulk head row I always make sure I dont fill the seat pocket with my junk and even remove most of the items (placing them in the over-head) as this does reduce your seat pitch quite a bit, especially when the seat in front reclines.

As someone who is over 6 foot though I'm not designed to sit in an economy seat and so try and avoid economy when flying over 4 hours if I can [:w]

Regards

Originally posted by firsttimer
I'm sorry if my post has put people potential new members off, anyone who knows me can certainly verify I'm a plain down to earth girl (definitely not a snob) who saves like a mad woman to be able to fly premium (or even UC,not for the 'luxury' factor but more from a 'preventative' point of view)

Indeed, spot on [y]

It isn't a snobbery thing - it is just that economy can be pretty 'inhumane'... (whether the person infront of you reclines or not).

If you think that my post is snobby here, than I hate to know what you think of the rest of the board... [:0] (should people not post threads about UC meals, wearing UC PJs etc.etc?)

Business Class or premium economy can often be more affordable than people think, it can be a realistic option if personal space is a big issue.

Boo

Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
I have a pair of these and they work quite wonderfully. I affix them to allow them 50% recline and I have yet to be called out on it.

Yep, I had a 'determined recliner' in front of me on a rather long flight in Y from LHR to JNB - the girlfriend at the time wouldn't hear of upgrading to PE (she's not my girlfriend anymore).

He thumped the seat back into my legs the moment the wheels were up, and then spent the next 20 minutes fidgeting and slamming himself back in the seat - as if it would move some more. I was quietly praying he'd break the seat - even if it meant he'd have ended up in my lap, the embarrassment would have been worth it, and either he or I would have to be moved.

So, when he went to the loo after the seatbelt signs went off, I found that a small drinks can strategically wedged in between the table supports and the seat back worked just as well as a knee defender.

But, back to the point. Seats upright during meal service should be required, even if the reclined person isn't eating, the person behind them may be.

I've also asked people to put their seats up slightly on other flights when either it's blocked me into the seat, or stopped me eating, drinking or anything else within reason.

I've also been whacked on the head, had coffee knocked over me, and had my leg trapped by a careless recliner.

It boils down to the fact that airlines haven't modified seat pitch in line with the human race generally getting taller over the years.

Mike

I'm only 16 and I have done my far share of travelling over the years, at least 4 trips to the states a year, and I do observe people and there attitudes. One thing I have found over the years is that people seem to think that children and teens aren't allowed to recline since we are smaller than adults, thus we don't require the space, like others. (Even though in most cases I am taller than the person asking.)

Unfortunately, stereotyping does help influence this. I may be 16, but I'm a straight A student, I do tonnes of voluntary community and charity work, both in and out of the Air Cadets and give back to society what I get, but most importantly I know right from wrong. I have had people complain to the crew when I'm travelling alone, which I do regularly, and to my parents when I travel with them because I have reclined my seat. I never recline my seat on a daytime flight, and on a night flight I always ask, and generally quite reluctant to recline most times.

If anyone asked me, or was talking to me I would always without fail task with manners, and respect the person I'm speaking to. Does this mean I should be spoken disrespectfully from others just because I have reclined my seat, and my age?

I do find this terrible rude and don't think age should be an issue.

Don't get me wrong, most people I meet whilst in the air are nice people.

Also, with the Premium market expanding, I can see demand for Y getting less. This can result in an increase in W demand, hence cabin reconfigurations VS are completing at the moment. This is a growing market, and I think can grow even more.

Does anyone else think its time VS Y went to 34Ó to match that of first choice and others? This could help some of the problems, though W may have to be increase by 2Ó to compensate.

Sorry if I blabbed on.

Good point G-VFLY. Had the joy of 3 seats for myself & D junior (age 2 at the time). Obviously he had 2 seats to lay on & i had 1. After lights out i reclined his seats by about 2 inches to allow a bit of space & with help of a blanket he was soon off to sleep. With a bit of quiet thought i'd do the same, so reclined my seat & then i was told that i was 'invading the space' of the passenger behind!!!! Stupid thing is they had their seats fully reclined!!!! Next thing they started pushing all our seats upright!!!! All i was interested was junior not waking up, so just asked a CC member to help out. 15 minutes of whinging & bleating followed about how they HAD to recline but we didn't. A better advert for J will never be seen!!!!!

AS they say 'he who laughs last', 5 hours later i'm awoken by junior throwing his pillows at our new friends behind!!! I'd like to say i stopped him, but i did pretend to be asleep for a minute longer!!!!!

Denzil, what reason did they give for 'having' to recline? That is some lot of cheek they had! You should have given D Jr. a few cups of hot tea to throw, in addition to the pillows...

GJ

I visit this forum quite often as I find it a helpful resource but after reading this thread today I am cross to say the least about people's attitude towards this sensitive subject.
One person on here said 'I really don't care if the person behind me has problems seeing their screen' what kind of attitude is that to have towards your fellow passengers? and its people with that selfish kind attiude that make a long haul flight a complete drag and make my husband and I happily fork out £50 for a bulk head or exit row seat.
Too much emphasise is put on I paid for my seat blah blah blah and whilst thats fair enough, the price of my seat also includes my right to be able to watch my seat back TV in relative comfort with out someones head in my lap/dinner.
In my experience on the MCO flights the crew in the main are very hesitant to to ask the passenger up front to put their seat up during meal service never mind anything else.
Sorry Guys rant over.

Now I'm a tad more mature than that! But Denzel, give my praise to Junior! I like his style!

GJ, it was because they didn't have enough room!!!!!! It was funny though, seeing all the pillows getting thrown!!!!!!

[Decker]

Originally posted by Giggles
the price of my seat also includes my right to be able to watch my seat back TV in relative comfort with out someones head in my lap/dinner.

Actually Giggles you don't have that 'right'. If you did the seat wouldn't recline. You ASSUME you have that right but the simple truth is that if the person in front reclines it is NOT their problem if it interferes with your use of your seat. It is a problem between the airline and you. If you believe that the airline sold you a seat with the proviso that the seat in front of you was not allowed to recline then your recourse is to take it up with the airline, not the person in front. They booked the seat believing that as the seat reclined the airline was happy for it to be reclined. Things the airline aren't happy with (smoking in the toilets, getting up when the seatbelt sign in on etc etc) are explicitly catered for.

We can all express preferences and personally I'd PREFER that seats not be reclined during meal service but at the end of the day if the person in front of me chooses to do so all I can do is rail against the carrier for not making it part of their conditions of carriage.

Some things are absolute and our wishing them otherwise is like trying to teach pigs to sing opera.

Originally posted by Decker
like trying to teach pigs to sing opera.

Nessun dorma! Nessun dorma!
Tu pure, o, Principessa,
nella tua fredda stanza,
guardi le stelle
che fremono d'amore
e di speranza.

GJ

[Decker]

I'd buy that for a dollar...

Originally posted by Giggles

One person on here said 'I really don't care if the person behind me has problems seeing their screen' what kind of attitude is that to have towards your fellow passengers?

Originally posted by Decker
They booked the seat believing that as the seat reclined the airline was happy for it to be reclined. Things the airline aren't happy with (smoking in the toilets, getting up when the seatbelt sign in on etc etc) are explicitly catered for.

The point is that in most things there is a layer of rules and laws and then there is an additional layer of common decency and consideration. The first layer makes life liveable and the second layer makes it more bearable, acceptable and helps keep a smile on our face.

The law says that I have to stop at a red light but it doesn't say that I have to let someone out of a side-road - common sense kicks in here. Speed limits on road determine the maximum speed allowed but is it always sensible to drive at this speed (in rain, ice, fog)? Yes indeed the airline gives you a seat that reclines and it is left to the individual to determine when this is appropriate. To suggest that the airline or anyone is happy for people to be inconsiderate is probably stretching the point.

While of course people have the right to recline their seat, and indeed should do if they want to, there should be a level of consideration. I was also a little put off by the 'I really don't care if the person behind me...' comment - Well I care and would try to minimise the impact if I could do so without causing myself distress - providing those behind are being reasonable. I can understand if the people behind are being unreasonable but surely if there is some give and take on both sides the travel experience would be better for everyone - including the crew.

This increasingly 'I'm alright Jack' mentality is frustrating and is continually eroding the basic fabric of a society.

FM

Needless to say anyone who thumps/slams their seat back in to my knees will at several times be woken up by me moving my knees to get comfortable and having to use the headrest on the seat in front (rather forcefully) to lever myself out of my wedged in hell. I can understand peoples rights to recline however do expect a bit of courtesy in being aware of the person behind as well.

I blame my upbringing after seeing my Dad lurge into someones chair to wake someone up who had been very rude to the cabin crew earlier in the flight due to 'turbulence'

He thumped the seat back into my legs the moment the wheels were up, and then spent the next 20 minutes fidgeting and slamming himself back in the seat