Family holiday rip off prices

[HighFlyer]

Not directed specifically at Ian, but why isnt it justifiable to take Children out of school for a week?

I'd not take my own children out of school when they were close to SATS or GCSE's for obvious reasons, but i cannot see the issue in them having a week off during term time if you, as a parent, are prepared to invest in your child's education during that trip and it isnt coinciding with exams. I never had a holiday during term time, ever, but i wouldn't hesitate to do it with my own children (heaven forbid!). Putting us aside for a moment, for many families this is the difference between having a holiday or not (given the pricing extremes) and i think a child would be far richer in education for experiencing travel and culture than staying in the classroom for an additional week. Many parents themselves work very hard and deserve a break away. I'd dare say that it helps bring a family closer with the reduced stress levels and new experiences to be shared.

We are having this issue with my sister right now. Her school will not permit more than a days absence without a doctors certificate, so a trip that we wanted to include my family in will have to be taken during her half term as she physically cannot be out of school. The annoying thing is that my sister is well above the learning age of her class so will not even be missing anything vital or new. Its okay for us as we are prepared to pay the increased prices and work within a limited time frame but other families may not have that luxury.

Thanks,
Sarah

Originally posted by Ian
Or, as I suggested before, send them to Charterhouse, where school ends on 28th June, leaving a good 3 weeks before holiday prices rise.

Even that does not work. As a former pupil of a similar school to the one you mentioned I can tell you it does not work. VH et al have worked out to ramp the prices up a couple of weeks before the masses finish holiday.

When at university, despite the much longer holidays than school pupils I found myself often paying above the normal rate for a trip back to the US to see the parents as the airlines ramp up the prices early. (Last December I paid £690 for a Y ticket on DL on December 5th!).

Originally posted by HighFlyer
Not directed specifically at Ian, but why isnt it justifiable to take Children out of school for a week?

I'd not take my own children out of school when they were close to SATS or GCSE's for obvious reasons, but i cannot see the issue in them having a week off during term time if you, as a parent, are prepared to invest in your child's education during that trip and it isnt coinciding with exams. I never had a holiday during term time, ever, but i wouldn't hesitate to do it with my own children (heaven forbid!). Putting us aside for a moment, for many families this is the difference between having a holiday or not (given the pricing extremes) and i think a child would be far richer in education for experiencing travel and culture than staying in the classroom for an additional week. Many parents themselves work very hard and deserve a break away. I'd dare say that it helps bring a family closer with the reduced stress levels and new experiences to be shared.

We are having this issue with my sister right now. Her school will not permit more than a days absence without a doctors certificate, so a trip that we wanted to include my family in will have to be taken during her half term as she physically cannot be out of school. The annoying thing is that my sister is well above the learning age of her class so will not even be missing anything vital or new. Its okay for us as we are prepared to pay the increased prices and work within a limited time frame but other families may not have that luxury.

Thanks,
Sarah

I think a lot of the tightening up in schools is less to do with the school's attitude per se, and more to do with government attendance targets - and presumably, having students out of school for holidays is akin to truancy.

I sympathise with you folks with school-age kids - I really, really do. I know how it feels, was there myself for all the time my kids were at school. Although school policy was less stringent that it now is, I worked in a school (my choice, it made things so much easier for child care in the holidays), so I couldn't have taken time out during term time. I moved on to another job once the kids were out of school....

It's a real bummer though....

Originally posted by catsilversword


I think a lot of the tightening up in schools is less to do with the school's attitude per se, and more to do with government attendance targets - and presumably, having students out of school for holidays is akin to truancy.

I also believe, not 100% though, that parents can be arrested for not sending children to school. I saw something on Inside Out on the beeb about truancy and the police were going around picking up kids who were playing truant and being very strict on parents.

I do not blame parents for taking their children out of school in term time for a holiday. As others have said, this can be the difference between having a holiday or not having one for a family, given the huge price difference. Foreign travel can be a great learning experience for children - I certainly benefitted from the overseas trips [both in & out of term time] that I was lucky to make when at school.

That said, some parents attitude towards school attendance is shocking. A big new shopping centre opened in Derby recently and the truancy squad were in attendance at the opening to round up schoolkids. They were shocked at the number who turned up with their parents for the lunchtime opening ceremony!

On my trip to MCO last month, there were loads of children travelling both ways & we made the outbound trip a week after half term had ended in all of the UK [2 weeks after it ended in Scotland I believe].

[mitchja]

Upto 2 years ago families where I live (Lancashire) where quite lucky as we used to have the main summer holiday quite early in the year compared to other regions.

The schools would be on holiday for 5-6 weeks starting in June I think, then go back for 4 weeks or so then they got another 2 weeks holiday in September.

That's all changed now and the school holidays here are all in line with the rest of the country.

Regards

[honey lamb]

Originally posted by Kraken

On my trip to MCO last month, there were loads of children travelling both ways & we made the outbound trip a week after half term had ended in all of the UK [2 weeks after it ended in Scotland I believe].

The Irish half term is a week after the UK one at that time of year and I know of a couple of families who travelled to MCO with VS then

Originally posted by nowt ont clock
Just one very small way in which the single/couple taxpayers can claw back some of their taxes that this government steal from us on a monthly basis![:D] We fund your kids education, you give us cheap airfares- seems like a reasonable deal to me[8D]

Totally apposite. Jolly well said.

Not only do I teach (part time)in school, I have three children. We have ALWAYS taken them out of school in term time. The small amount of work they missed didn't make any difference to their education. If a child is prepared to put in a little extra work when they return, they will easily catch up.

The difference in flight prices would be between £2000-£4000 extra for the five of us, depending on when we went. Looking at Feb 08 half term, the prices are £2500+ pp!!

If it's acceptable to take the kids of out school during term time to save the parents money - why not let the teachers take their holidays in term time too?[}:)]

Afterall Mickey Mouse is much more educational - maybe the kids could get jobs in a Disneystore!

Whatever next - people will complain Christmas costs too much.[:0]

Originally posted by catsilversword
I think a lot of the tightening up in schools is less to do with the school's attitude per se, and more to do with government attendance targets - and presumably, having students out of school for holidays is akin to truancy.

Spot on. They are weighed and measured in so many ways these days. It's now at the point where they need to employ people to collate and analyse the screeds of data they are expected to produce.

Also, consider the decision making. Do you let everyone go, regardless ? Or do you, as a headteacher up to your eyes in other issues, have to make judgement calls based on your knowledge (or worse, opinion of) the motives of the family (not all take a responsible attitude to their children's education), the educational value of the trip and the circumstances of the family ?

Originally posted by mitchja
Upto 2 years ago families where I live (Lancashire) where quite lucky as we used to have the main summer holiday quite early in the year compared to other regions.

As a child we used to get the Bolton fortnight, which if memory serves was a couple of weeks before the standard summer holidays. Traditionally it was the time when the mills closed for maintenance. It make an iota of difference to our holiday plans - it was the caravan or nowt for us!

Paul

Originally posted by sunsational
Not only do I teach (part time)in school, I have three children. We have ALWAYS taken them out of school in term time. The small amount of work they missed didn't make any difference to their education.

How utterly, utterly depressing. I, too have no doubt that the children will catch up with their work on return. I feel sorry for your kids, sunsational, I really do.

Why do you feel sorry for my children Ian?

I can do no better than refer you to the 2nd paragraph of my post on 2/12/2007 in this thread.

Originally posted by Ian
I can do no better than refer you to the 2nd paragraph of my post on 2/12/2007 in this thread.

Then maybe you should try harder Ian. A bad argument is no argument at all.

I think the crux of the argument, so eloquently put by other members, HF, RM, Kraken and SS, is that for some families the choice of holiday or no holiday is determined by taking time during term. Most holidays, if done right, contribute cultural experience and diversity into a childs education and can be as important to a child's development as reading, writing or mathematics. Add to this the family time that never seems to be available in a home setting and you have a very well rounded argument.

Personally RobL I think teachers should be able to take holidays during term time - and school terms should be lengthened appropriately. I would suggest no half terms, and extra week at Easter and up to 10 days holiday at any time throughout the year.

Of course as HF says, you need to be wary of particular time in your childs education - hence the concept of blackout dates where leave should be refused - I have the same in my job at critical times. Most parents are responsible and try to stay within guidelines but these guidelines have to have some flexibility or else the run the risk of alienating and criminalising good and responsible parents.

Incidentally our MCO trip represents a chance for our children to spend some time with the grand-parents, in addition to us, over the Christmas period. Since school does not break until 21st December they would have missed the entire festive build up as we are obviously not preparing for Christmas in the UK. My daughter is only just five, has been in full-time education for a year and part time education for 2 years before that - in the States she would not have even started grade 1 yet. She is in the top third of her class and we considered very carefully before we humbly asked for permission to remove her for a week - this was granted. She will be keeping a journal of her trip which will be available for the teachers when she returns and of course there will be all sorts of other edcuational elements to the trip.

Believe me I am very conscious of the reponsibility I have to the tax payers of this country who constantly remind me that money is being stolen from them to pay for my children's education - how could I not be as a contributor to this forum. Hell I was a childless tax-payer for 20 years before I availed myself of the educational facility so I guess I stacked up a few credits. Unlike NOC I do not consider cheap airfares to be adequate recompense for this free education and feel both proud and privileged to live in a country where such an opportunity exists. Yes I do feel indebted to society for this and indeed the free education I recieved myself - I am sure my own childen will feel equally indepted when they start working and having their money stolen too.

All of this is still peripheral to the OP. I accept that prices are higher during school holidays - it's not a rip-off, just the cold hard facts of S&P. I believe that the way to address this and provide a greater opportunity to enrich the educational and personal development of our young people is to build more flexibility into the system so that demand (to some degree) begins to balance itself across the year.

FM

[preiffer]

Just to add, had I not had the amount of foreign travel that I did when I was younger I'd have been buggered when I started work. Day 2: 'Fly to San Francisco please, on your own, pick up the car there and here's your apartment key.' [:0]

To me, that travel (and learning how different countries work) back then was more important than quite a few of my lessons!

[Decker]

As an aside did anyone realise that you can have educational holidays in the UK and suddenly flight costs go away? Surely this is more about where the parents want to go on holiday?

[RichardMannion]

Originally posted by preiffer
Just to add, had I not had the amount of foreign travel that I did when I was younger I'd have been buggered when I started work. Day 2: 'Fly to San Francisco please, on your own, pick up the car there and here's your apartment key.' [:0]

To me, that travel (and learning how different countries work) back then was more important than quite a few of my lessons!

You mean you don't use the quadratic formula on a daily basis? [}:)]

Originally posted by Decker
As an aside did anyone realise that you can have educational holidays in the UK and suddenly flight costs go away? Surely this is more about where the parents want to go on holiday?

It's not just about flight costs Decker. Virtually every holiday is more expensive during school holidays - try renting a cottage in July / August or over Easter. Also it is not always about holidays - sometimes you are actually going to see people and they cannot always come to you.

Having said that certainly UK holidays offer a very good lower cost alternative and can certainly be educational - especially for younger children.

FM

[Decker]

I personally have no moral problem with taking kids out of school except for the fact that it seems to be illegal under current legislation. There are quite a few things I have no problem with except for their illegality. When we were younger it was the only way we could afford holidays - and that was to Flamingo Park Zoo Caravans (loaned from an aunt). And we used to live in cardboard box at t'side of road...

Originally posted by Decker
I personally have no moral problem with taking kids out of school except for the fact that it seems to be illegal under current legislation.

It's not illegal with the schools permission - basically the rule of law determines that it is the school's decision.

See here.

FM

[Decker]

an important distinction. With permission then the children are being taught a valuable lesson in honesty and reasonableness. And if permission is refused you can always blame them as they're obviously not working hard enough

Originally posted by FamilyMan
It's not illegal with the schools permission - basically the rule of law determines that it is the school's decision.

See here.

See here for our local authority's guidance on the matter. The second page may be of particular interest.

Apparently the 10 days is a hangover from WWII and relates to service leave.

Paul

Originally posted by FamilyMan
Then maybe you should try harder Ian. A bad argument is no argument at all.
FM

Sorry, but that would be the half hour argument. You've only paid for the 10 minute argument[:D]
That would be because I am not trying to make an argument out of it. I have expressed my views and you have yours. I see where you are coming from, but I am not convinced you have taken my point. Please correct me if I am wrong, but try to keep the condescention down, thanks.

Like others here, I was quite fortunate to enjoy the longer holidays of a private school - nine weeks in the summer, three weeks for xmas and Easter. However, my siblings were in the state system, so we still holidayed during school holiday time. My parents would never have proposed missing school.

Lots of people have said they can't afford this. The right choice to make then, IMHO, is to not go abroad. Any comparison between the classroom and walking around EPCOT is laughable. It's a case of the parents wanting their break and wanting it at the right price. I can't agree that it does not affect the child's education at all - if those two weeks were not vital, they probably would not be in the curriculum.

Perhaps some people forget that holidaying abroad, whether to meet relatives or just enjoy themselves, is not critical. There are more important things.