Oh Dear! All the good work undone?!?

For all of those who replied to my VS17 trip report last week with encouraging words, it looks like the old inconsistancy has returned.

On 5th October, I travelled on SQ21 (the 20 hour EWR-SIN for which a trip report will be posted over the weekend) and Mrs R, who was with me on VS17, took VS46 back to Blighty.

Seated in 12K, when I called on arrival in SIN hoping to hear what she thought of the UCS, I got a bit of an ear bashing..

- No menus
- Run out of sleep-suits by the time they got to her
- Wrong meal choice bought, then no other choice available "sorry we
have run out"
- "Sorry we have also run out of ice-cream"
- UCS had to be 're-set' by crew twice
- Crew not at all bothered, perhaps as she is a young woman
travelling on her own and thus not the typical high revenue
profile?

I have just been told in no uncertain terms not to book her on Virgin again! So one convert back (me) one put off (her) - net gain = zero!

I'll fire a letter of to customer services when I am back - can anyone give me some idea of who to write to?

All the best

Chris R.

Chris

That doesn't sound good at all, but I doubt that the profile bit came into any bearing. Those sort of complaints look like the kind that would affect more than one passenger, so VS should probably be aware of them. I'd contact customer relations via one of the methods listed here.

Personally speaking, I'd ring first and follow it up with a letter if necessary. Hope it works out.

Cheers

Michael

They are mostly all problems I've/we've seen or heard before:
UCS design flimsyness/teething troubleShakyness of supplies (particularly booze) on inward legsCrew in some sort of depressed mood on the inward leg - expecting everyone to sleep, offering an abbreviated service, etc.
I wonder if the lack of sleepsuits and main courses was caused by a number of last minute op-ups because of overbooking down the back? They somehow ended up with more people up front than supplies had been loaded for? Still a bummer that a paying UC passenger may have missed out because of an op-up.

Definitely tell VS about your dissatisfaction and disappointment, and maybe it will stop VS' middle-management doing crackpot things like not specifying a fridge/freezer unit on the A346 (presumably to save money) - yet expecting the ice cream to keep for about 6 hours before it's served.

Cheers,
Mike

Don't know what is going on with the UC service but we've just flown out to MCO and it wasn't anything special at all. Given one glass of champagne before take off and not offered a refill or anything.
Food was average for business class flight. Films were ok, audio was crap. Surely someone should realise that the NOVA system only flies to the US/Carribean and as we 'bucket and spade' routers are so unintellectual then why the hell do we need 'big in Japan', 'pop noodle' and 'world hits' surely without games the kids could be kept a bit more entertained with s-club etc (and a lot of the adults)

Maybe it's because I've flown a number of times but the crew in the UC cabin seemed very young and it was without doubt the worst UC service with a group of giggling school girls in the galley. We were snapped at for crossing the aisle to the loo on the other side thro the galley by one (even though the meal sevice was well and truely over) there was nearly a fight with the woman behind us when they took her water away and didn't want to give here any more. And the girls were very keen to be sorting their make-up out an hour before landing in front of us all and were more concerned about who had their copy of Hello!

I know this won't be a popular suggestion/observtion but the girls are a lot beter serving when there's a more senior person looking over them and when there's least one bloke working UC.

I had a similar experience on a return flight (a sparsely filled Y) a month ago--my first experience with the "giggly school girls" although they were aided and abetted by young male crew as well. I did let customer service know (I was a bit appalled at the snogging session in the galley mid flight!) but had a fairly cursory response. The upshot for me was that I was unable to nap the whole flight due to crew hilarity and was not at my best at work the next morning, which was a true annoyance.

I believe this was an anomoly as it was a first for me--usually crew are attentive and courteous, but I don't often travel Y so wondered if this is more usual back of the curtain?

Hmmm. These "anomalies" seem to be increasing in frequency. VS clearly have a problem: there is a fine line between friendly, outgoing customer service and the "giggling girls", and VS need to be careful that they have not let standards slip. There seems to be plenty of evidence that inbound UK flights seem to get worse service than outbound, too.

Despite the feeling that sometimes they would rather you weren't actually on the plane (!), BA have never failed to give me highly polished service. It would be a shame if VS started to feel the brunt of people started switching back to BA due to bad service from a minority of its staff.

Incidentally it is probably best writing to VS customer relations. I am still awaiting a response from my complaint regarding the rudeness of a VS FA 10 days ago... [:(!]

BC

This is becoming a major concern I feel.
If gold card members like Bc are not getting a satisfactory response from Customer services, and the fact that he had to complain in the first case, added to the numerous comments on here from people on various flights, either there is a small group of cabin crew who need some more training (i.e. the same "gang" on different flights causing this feeling of less professionalism than before) or the problem is more endemic. Has the training team changed lately? has there been an influx of new staff with others being put up to supervisory status due to the large expansion coming, who are really not up to the task? Its always difficult to go from being one of the gang to boss.
Do Virgin not have senior staff or some customer based "secret shopper" system where unknown to the flight team, they are being assesed?
If people, and senior posters and multi flyers with virgin at that, are concerned as to the way service standards are going, this should cause Virgin some major concerns, as this site is a snapshot of the many others who fly with Virgin and possibly will fly with others instead.
One set of rogue flying staff (and by that I mean possibly need a little more training) can ruin it for all the rest.

It is a pity that Virgin customer relations could not contribute to this site in a specific forum section to allay the fears of the increasing many who come here to get an idea of what to expect flying Virgin for the first time, or coming back to Virgin after going with the others.

Personally I feel that this site has gone from being a small virgin fan club forum to a major weapon in Virgin's arsenal, with its legitamacy to speak for "joe public" proven. On many other forums, time and time again, people are directed to this forum to get help or an idea of service levels Virgin supply, something NOT available to other airlines, and VS should understand this and also take notice that when a major problem surfaces on this site, the problem is really 10 fold out in the "real world"

Kudos Pix

(wanderings over)

Its seems to be an inconsitent problem.

Flying to BOS from LHR in April, they ran out of food choice for the missus on the flight OUT! Which when you pay 2k for a ticket is just not on.

Having said that just got back from SFO and the service was great and managed to get double helpings of the toffee and choc ice cream[^]

There was also the issues of the the UCS litterally falling appart, Side walls hanging off, TV's not sitting anywhere near flush and with scratches on.

Sometimes I do get the feeling that younger folk do get a look of "what are you doing here" when flying upper, at recent check in at the upper desk at LHR, the women sat there and asked me what class I was flying...funny I always thought they had no queue and a red carpet for Y!;)

Surely, VS has a 'Quality Control Department' that employs various methods to measure the quality of their products? Supervising personnel, customer questionnaires, covert 'passengers' (AlanA's secret shoppers), even V-Flyer website watchers!
However, most problems manifest themselves during a flight, whilst the solution lies many months previously at the staff training stage, as many here constantly mention.
On the matter of having insufficient supplies of ice-cream, sleep suits etc. it just isn't good enough to be told 'sorry, we've run out' Generous compensation must be given to turn a potentially disgruntled customer into a 'let down, but still happy' one. Only by doing that can VS maintain the valuable goodwill of its customers and we will see an increase in happy postings on this site as evidence.
C'mon VS, get it sorted.

[Pete]

It is certainly a worry to hear of these problems on VS flights, but I'd like to attempt to put it into some kind of measurable perspective. Having read through some pretty good trip reports recently (ok, and some bad stuff too), I'm thinking I need to add a rating score to each trip report posting, and then display a 3-month rolling average of those ratings to get a sample barometer of the way customers view VS at any one time.

My initial thoughts are ratings for Check In, Seat, Entertainment, Food & Drink and Cabin Crew. I'm leaving out things like the Clubhouses on purpose, since they are not part of everyones flight, so therefore may distort figures if I left them in.

I'll start looking at the code today, although I might not finish this little project until after my quick holiday - which starts tomorrow [8D]

Pix

Hold on to your seats - you will probably all disagree.

The problems here are just like the problems that prompted my first ever post a year ago.

I gave Virgin a real shot last year, and to give you an idea how much 125 tier points in 9 months, and only 10 from paid upper class, and no partners.

We have all had good and bad time with VA, but my problem is that I am starting to become disaullisioned (SP) If you look at all the posts that are made, they are invariable from the premium cabins, by definition the product that should be 100%, 100% of the time.

I have a theory, and it my be my big head, but I think it is becasue I am doing it so often now.

When you first fly virgin it feels like a revoloution, The Club House, the Treatments, the Limos ect ect, then you get the IFE which is great, the cabins are nice to look, all in all the chances are you will see the flight as great. In simple terms the obvious part that catch the average traveller work.

But do it a lot, as a lot on the board will do, and you start to see past all of the great bits above, and notice more and more that actually first choice food is not avaviable, or seat is not 100%, or crew are knackered and not really bothered etc etc. Then you think OK i will feed back, and you start realising that you have fedback something on every flight you have flown in the last 3 months.

I also think that with the continued excitment and lauch of the UCS,
and looking back at the posts last year, a lot of people just thought what we have is OK, but it is alright becasue we have a new suite comming and it is amazing, so maybe we stopped noticing, then with the intro of the suite everyone was bowled over and we stopped noticing again, now it is in we start to notice again?

One for thought, VA are the best airline in the world for maximising seats, which I love, because it has meant I have been upgraded a number of times, something which will too probably by definition of human nature make me consider the airline in a different way.

Finally, if you want an indication of how consistent or the standard of the product, have a look at your flying club account and count how many free miles you have recived, becasue of this problem, or that item of bad service.... I have a few and I note that many others on the board have too! This is great because we can hold the next V-Flyer meet in NYC on reward tickets, but actually points out just how inconsistent the service must be?

Rant over!

And in answer to the statement I made about using the past tense for giving Virgin a shot, I still have four booking this year and some next, but the BA First Fares vis LIS and ATH are creeping especially when the are the same price as W fares

quote:Originally posted by pixuk
My initial thoughts are ratings for Check In, Seat, Entertainment, Food & Drink and Cabin Crew. I'm leaving out things like the Clubhouses on purpose, since they are not part of everyones flight, so therefore may distort figures if I left them in.
Pix

Mmmmm, yes. A great idea. Without trying to complicate things, perhaps a separate rating for Upper, PE and Economy would be appropriate. After all, Economy pax queuing for 2 hours to check in would not give the same rating as UC pax queuing for 2 seconds. Also, how about a rating for Reservations and Flying Club service?

[fozzyo]

Sounds like a really cool idea Pix.

On the comments do people feel that VS are concentrating on the big routes, ie New York and San Fran and maybe not giving the same attention to some of the others as well they should?

If I were to fly UC at any time and didn't get the same level of service, attention and quality as I did on our recent flight I would be a very unhappy bunny. More so because I would be paying for it myself and not my company.

Foz )

Hi

Just a thought, this could be turned into a sort of flight survey for VA. We all know that after a long flight you just want to go home or to your hotel and cant be bothered or do have time to fill out a comment card. Maybe someone who is a member of the forum with suitable contacts could, with PIXUK permission feed the information back to VA.

Regards

Jason

[Pete]

Ok, I've addded a section to the Trip Reports forum which will allow you to rate your flight. Note that I'm only interested in recording info on Virgin Atlantic flights at this stage, and this only applies to new postings.

Currently there's no summary of the data once you've entered it, but once there's a bigger sample to view, I'll start displaying stats on the site such as current 3 month rolling average opinion; whether things are improving or getting worse, and which areas consistently under or over achieve. I'm also recording the cabin type, so we should be able to drill down to that level aswell.

For the moment though, if you can record your ratings when posting a VS trip report, we'll all benefit from the data in the near future.

Ta

Pix

[Bazz]

That should be very helpful, it may also identify any Crew who are regularly below par. [:I]

If an upper class pax makes a complaint onboard there is paperwork which the FSM will complete.

This will get forwarded to customer relations and they will contact the passengers within 24hours of returning to the UK.

quote:Originally posted by BlackCat
There seems to be plenty of evidence that inbound UK flights seem to get worse service than outbound, too.

Was pondering this myself on my last inbound in PE. A female member of the cabin crew spent most of the safety video talking to a friend who was flying on the flight in the seat behind me - pretty much obliterating the audio.
The interesting thing was that she was recounting her day which after an early start had taken in just about every major tourist spot that NYC had to offer from the Statue of Liberty to Central Park. I was just interested in how she was going to do a decent job after such an actioned pack day - then I realised that a fair few of the crew had been with her.
Since most cabin crew are individually assigned to a flight rather than as part of a regular unit - I would assume that they spend the outbound flight and their layover getting to know each other and most of the return leg acting like old friends.
Having said that service is normally OK and I certainly have not had the experience that Razza has noted. Good to hear Pix is on top of the situation - maybe we could split the data by inbound/outbound?

Phil (Buffy)

In case any staffers who are reading this thread ( I am sure there are) I want to say in my opinion anyway that I feel that everyone who is connected to this site has a great respect and admiration for VS or they would not be so concerned at what seems to be a slight fall in our expectations at the level of service. Any comments I hope are taken constructively so that we can keep VS where it belongs. No1.

I for one am not VS bashing and God forbid is anyone else.

Feel free to reply

Iain

[fozzyo]

Another one of those things that this site is superb at doing - ensuring you have the full knowledge to get the most out of your flight, and when things don't go as they should what you should expect to happen.

Out of interest, is there a procedure or any documentation made if in Premium or Econ? Naturally in all cases the best person to talk to is obviously the FSM, do they have to make any kind of post-flight report?

Foz )

There any 'Any concerns' forms on baord for Y and PE.

Any thing that happens on the flight is recorded on a flight report and when back in London is forwarded to the correct department.

[Pete]

I think most people on this site are genuinely interested in Virgin being the best they can. Equally it's easy for a casual visitor to be influenced by the last thing they've read (be it good or bad). Adding the 'flight ratings' to trip reports should help to normalise the current temperature of passenger perception without any of the emotional language that sometimes makes the bad reports get more attention than the praise.

I'll be working on the pretty charting stuff and we should have some data over the coming months that will be able to help us all understand if Virgin are satisfying their customers more often than not, and were the weak points are. The historical reports will also let us see if there is a trend getting better, or if it's getting worse.

Pix

[ChuckC]

Pix,
An excellent idea. This should help just as you expect.

Thanks again from all of us.

Regards,
Chuck-

I agree with Pix. By very nature of this forum, we would all only post if we were genuinly concerned about poor service, and wanted it to be better. If you hate things from me experience you post of F****Talk

quote:BA First Fares vis LIS and ATH are creeping especially when the are the same price as W fares

The BA first fares are not that cheap honest or I would be on one now:D

Regarding the forms for on board beefs in UC I had one filled in a couple of months ago the response zero.[:(!]

I think as I have traveled more upfront the little niggles seem to wash over me. I have found VS staff to be generally good, but they have always had the rude and work shy element.I am certain a lot of FAs do not appreciate how much money it costs to sit up front when providing disinterested and incompetent service.
Looking forward to our next trip down the back of the bus "to put bad UC in perspective" NOT.