Pathetic - News for anyone flying over NY

Im booked on a flight to MCO on Jan 1st. With possible strikes pending i phoned Virgin who practically denied all knowledge and just kept assuring me not to worry.

Since i have booked everything separately i am able to move the dates of the hotel and the car hire at a cost of about 150.

So i asked Virgin if my outbound flight was rescheduled by say 4 days could i reschedule my inbound flight by the same 4 days to enable my family to still have our 2 week holiday.
Can you believe the answer was yes, but at a cost of 35 per passenger plus any difference in fare. I explained that i would be already out of pocket and was told to take it up with my insurers - who seem to lay any blame on the airline.

So i asked what happens if my outbound flight is rescheduled will i have an opportunity to cancel, i was told yes i could but could only cancel the outbound flight.

No compensation will be paid since Virgin will have done everything possible to avoid the strike - Now if this is true then i assume if no party backs down the stale mate will go on for ever? If virgin then raise their offer after the strike has started then surely it can be argued they didn't actually do everything in their power to avoid it in the first instance?

The attitude i got was of an arrogant and obnoxious company that is really disinterested and not concerned that whilst my family and many others should be having a holiday of a lifetime we could possibly end up thousands of pounds out of pocket and have a holiday planned for months ruined.
Its strange, i stopped using Virgin Holidays when their laissez faire attitude to customer satisfaction became more than apparent.

It really is a joke that 3 weeks from my holiday i am bereft with worry and not the excitement i should be.

[Nottingham Nick]

[:?]

Welcome to V-Flyer, stu.

[?]

Nick

[honey lamb]

Welcome to V-Flyer.

I have a flight booked on Jan 2nd but I am doing absolutely nothing with regard to the threatened strike at present. The result of the ballot won't be known for another two weeks and if the strike is going ahead I have a contract with VS for them to get me to NYC which means there will be contingency plans in operation. A few years ago I was booked with EI when they went on strike. I was re-routed by them to LHR via MAN to connect up with my on-going flight.

We also fly out on the 1st and totally understand your concerns (its a Christmas present and a first trip to see the mouse for my nephew and niece), but I think, at the moment, I am like Honey Lamb, I think we will wait until the results are in until I start to get really concerned.

I hope everything works out (for everyone flying during the coming difficult period)

David[:?]

[mcmbenjamin]

BA strikes about every summer. Life still goes on.

I appreciate and totally agree with most replies about waiting for the result of the ballot.
Nonetheless i was hoping to get some sort of back up plan exercised so that if VS do decide on the 20th to strike i wont be one of the thousands of passengers all going into instant panic mode and finding myself being unable to contact Virgin or being unable to change my plans.

The re routing is an interesting one, i dont see how this could work because whether they fly from LHR or MAN the flight still needs cabin crew. Also if BAA strike then i would have thought re routing through anywhere other than MAN would be out of the question.

As i said my biggest concern seems to be the lack of concern VS is giving this. It seemed as though they were hoping it would just blow over. It wont, and in my opinion to further penalise the passengers financially or otherwise for the sake of an internal staffing problem at virgin is poor practice by both Virgin and their Cabin Crew alike.

Originally posted by mcmbenjamin
BA strikes about every summer. Life still goes on.

Thats ok then.
When my children are sat crying with many others because our holiday has been ruined and lots of money wasted i will at least be able to find content in the fact that indeed life does go on.

[Pete]

Stu,

I appreciate it is frustrating, but to put this into perspective there is little Virgin can offer you until the details of the strike ballot are known and only then (and it's still a big 'if' as to whether the majority of VS crew actually want to strike) when Unite have announced when they plan to call industrial action. Until then, they won't have a feeling as to how many of their staff would be planning to take part in industrial action, and how best to juggle their schedules and workforce in order to minimise the impact on service.

The potential BAA strike, whilst an inconvenient coincidence, isn't something Virgin has any control over, and at this early stage are highly unlikely to be able to offer alternative plans to customers in their call centres until at least BAA have drafted up their own strategy (and you can be sure they haven't done that yet, nor would it be likely until that separate ballot is known).

Sorry if it sounds like there is lack of sympathy for your situation - there isn't. Many V-Flyer visitors are in the same predicament, and the 'stirke thread', which has now reached 46 pages and over 32,000 views is a clear indication that this is of major concern to us all. However, it's too early to say the strike is on, what days it might be on, and how flights will be effected. It's simply not practically to plan for the unknown. I'm not sure why moving your flights 4 days will save your holiday, as we don't actually know when any industrial action will hit. You may end up moving your flight onto a one-day strike action. No-one knows at this stage (and if anyone tells you different, they are making wild speculation).

Pete

I presume (hope ?) someone in VS is busy laying plans, working out how many, and which, routes they could service in the event of some staff striking.

I know what you mean about being concerned, particularly as you could help the situation by actively managing your booking. For us, we can only go on a certain date and have to be back on another date, no excuses. All we can do is hope things get sorted, and at least our two are older and will be more accepting if things don't happen as planned. The thing I do, however, want to avoid is being told to come to the airport and then sit round for hours waiting for something to happen. I'd also like to know whether I should alter our plans and actually go out and by a Christmas tree and order big rib roast for Christmas day - both currently not in our schedule as we're due to fly out boxing day.

If BAA strike, then I think all bets would be off and no-one but the favoured few would get anywhere via an airport in the UK.

Paul

Originally posted by stu
I appreciate and totally agree with most replies about waiting for the result of the ballot.
Nonetheless i was hoping to get some sort of back up plan exercised so that if VS do decide on the 20th to strike i wont be one of the thousands of passengers all going into instant panic mode and finding myself being unable to contact Virgin or being unable to change my plans.

The re routing is an interesting one, i dont see how this could work because whether they fly from LHR or MAN the flight still needs cabin crew. Also if BAA strike then i would have thought re routing through anywhere other than MAN would be out of the question.

As i said my biggest concern seems to be the lack of concern VS is giving this. It seemed as though they were hoping it would just blow over. It wont, and in my opinion to further penalise the passengers financially or otherwise for the sake of an internal staffing problem at virgin is poor practice by both Virgin and their Cabin Crew alike.

You do have a back up plan, shift your plans by four days and pay the extra ££, you may not like it but that is your back up plan unless you want to shell out thousands on some flexible tickets with another airline from another airport on a potentially indirect route which I'm guessing you don't.

Apart from that you really should stop worrying at this point as no strike as been confirmed and you're potentially worrying over nothing.

Every sympathy with your possible predicament Stu - we are also travelling over Xmas / NY. However panic breeds panic and while the VS public front has to be 'service as normal' they are, I am sure, making multiple possible contingency plans behind the scenes. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst is a fairly good moto in these circumstances.

Although most people are content to wait and see, myself included, other people will be fishing for contingency plans like yourself and this would be a recipe for chaos if it is not done with some kind of formal central process. The answers that you were being given reflect the VS position today, if the worse happens undoubtedly this position will be adjusted, it would just be difficult to handle the PR of cancellation fees to passengers during a strike.

Best of luck in assembling a parachute though.

FM

[Nottingham Nick]

I am sorry, but if you spend all of your life worrying about what might happen, you are going to worry yourself into an early grave.

I accept that there are people in life who see the glass as half full, and those who see it as half empty, but there are an awful lot of things to happen before contingency plans which I am sure are in place, will be released to staff, and then a lot more things to happen before they are made known to the public.

As others have said, we don't even know for sure if there is going to be a strike. If there is, everyone will be working to try and minimise disruption to the flying public. If there isn't, or it happens on dates that don't affect you, then you have got all worked up for nothing.

We have to believe that, even though the information on here would sometimes appear to contradict this view, that the Unions and Management know what their role is and they are working towards a solution that is acceptable to all. YVMV

Nick

[Decker]

Welcome to V-Flyer Stu.

To expect VS to bend over backwards to help thousands of pax prepare contingency plans for something that may or may not happen seems a little na•f? Behind the scenes they are doubtless making all sorts of plans but they are unlikely to share these with customers until it becomes necessary to do so.

At this stage the sky is not falling in.

I wish I had Nottingham Nick's outlook on life as currently I do feel like I'm heading into an early grave with worry over the potential strike(s).

My OH and I are scheduled to leave LHR on Dec 27th and I cannot even begin to contemplate that we might not be able to go. I know we are not alone in our situations but I do feel like I will surely go mad before Dec 20th gets here. I think I need to stop trawling the net as every opinion I read that suggests the BAA strike will go ahead makes me more and more depressed.

I am a little confused by Stu's comments:
So i asked what happens if my outbound flight is rescheduled will i have an opportunity to cancel, i was told yes i could but could only cancel the outbound flight.

Surely if you decide to cancel your outbound flight they have to cancel your inbound also? In the European Union's Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 it states that if your flight is cancelled (or delayed for >5 hours) you have the choice to cancel your booking and receive a refund of your unused ticket, and for the part of the journey already made if the delay means your flight no longer serves any purpose in relation to your original travel plans. Is this then with respect to just one flight?

Based on the title I thought this was going to be about some new FAA anti-terrorism regulation!

[honey lamb]

Originally posted by stu

The re routing is an interesting one, i dont see how this could work because whether they fly from LHR or MAN the flight still needs cabin crew.

Sorry, I didn't make it clear in my post. When I was re-routed because of a strike it was with another carrier so the issue of cabin crew did not arise. With regard to VS, if the strike does go ahead a great deal will depend on how many staff are union members/prepared to work, etc.

[mcmbenjamin]

Originally posted by stu

Originally posted by mcmbenjamin
BA strikes about every summer. Life still goes on.

Thats ok then.
When my children are sat crying with many others because our holiday has been ruined and lots of money wasted i will at least be able to find content in the fact that indeed life does go on.

Point taken. I was on a VS flight when there was a BA strike and lots of BA folks got upgrades on VS. Sort of free marketing for VS. People booked into BA J thought they were upgrades to First on VS with the CH and cabin enviroment. Tons of comments to the crew but they all replied that they were in Upper/Business.

Possibly you can buy some sort of insurance? There must be someone out there willing to sell some coverage? I have one life insurance policy that only covers for medical reasons to $1,000,000.00 if I get hit by a nuclear bomb while driving. Why I bought it I do not know but it cost $41.00. I bet someone could sell you a policy that would pay for the cost incurred.

I tell you what, whilst you're worrying about 'possible' strikes affecting your holiday you may as well worry yourself to death over the fact your flights may get cancelled due to adverse weather....

You really need to stop worrying about any possible disruptions, you never know what's aroudn the corner!

Personally I would be worried and if I had taken the time and trouble to contact VA with my worry and questions I would expect to know what contingency plans had been put in place should the dispute which has now reached the public domain turn in to a strike or at least some re-assurance based on fact rather than Doh what dispute sir or don't worry it might not happen.

Originally posted by honey lamb

Sorry, I didn't make it clear in my post. When I was re-routed because of a strike it was with another carrier so the issue of cabin crew did not arise.

Just curious HL--were you rerouted in your original cabin?

cheers,
RR

Thank you for your replies.

I understand that worrying helps no one but i would say i am more hoping to avoid any possible disruption to my holiday as oppose to worrying about it. The way i see it there are over 3 weeks before i go which is sufficient time to make enquiries and have some sort of back up plan in place should the strike go ahead.
I personally think all the people who just wait and see what happens are the ones who will be wishing they too had made plans albeit hypothetical ones.
I do feel that if the writer who wrote dont worry about it had spent £2500 on a holiday and thats before clothes, spending money etc then they too might at least have a raised eyebrow about this situation. Although i have to admit, even those who have spent less have as much right to wonder if indeed they will be going on Holiday this coming New Year.

My whole orginal point was not about the airline bending over backwards to accomodate me, i never expected a private jet laying on but i did expect some kind of reasurance in place for concerned passengers. Like i said, every alternative or option they gave me either ruined my holiday or meant it would cost me financially.

To the writer RE Routing, Virgin made it very clear that they would not be loading passengers onto another airline as the contract was with them and that no compensation would be paid as per my original post.

Whilst i wish i could relax and look forward to two weeks having Disney over load unfortunately i cant, and as a parent and someone who has paid money out for a holiday i would assume my actions and concerns are fully justified and perfectly normal.

[honey lamb]

Originally posted by roadrunner

Originally posted by honey lamb

Sorry, I didn't make it clear in my post. When I was re-routed because of a strike it was with another carrier so the issue of cabin crew did not arise.

Just curious HL--were you rerouted in your original cabin?

cheers,
RR

Actually, no. We did better [:D] We were in economy for the ORK-LHR leg but the only two seats available on the ORK-MAN leg were in business on BA, but Aer Lingus endorsed us on to the flight. The MAN-LHR was back on economy, though

I agree with the opinions expressed by a few others that it's a mistake to start thinking about changing flights this early, because as Pete said, your decision to move your flights could very well hurt you rather than help you. I'm also not surprised that VS will not relax its rescheduling policies for the other flight. Unless both flights are directly affected by one or both strikes than VS has no reason to give you a break. During the BA food services strike two summers ago our outbound flight got cancelled, and although we were able to change that flight for free we weren't able to change the inbound flight. It's the rules of the game, I'm afraid.

Originally posted by VS-EWR
I agree with the opinions expressed by a few others that it's a mistake to start thinking about changing flights this early, because as Pete said, your decision to move your flights could very well hurt you rather than help you. I'm also not surprised that VS will not relax its rescheduling policies for the other flight. Unless both flights are directly affected by one or both strikes than VS has no reason to give you a break. During the BA food services strike two summers ago our outbound flight got cancelled, and although we were able to change that flight for free we weren't able to change the inbound flight. It's the rules of the game, I'm afraid.

Sorry i think i havent made myself clear. I am not actually going to change anything right now but to plan ahead and find out if i can, and make best a back up plan to take effect if the strike does go ahead.

However in regards to the inbound flight i personally think it should be able to be moved. If for example i had only booked a weekend in New York and the Friday flight was delayed until Saturday evening but the inbound was not effected are you suggestion one should fly out only to return the next day since VS should not and are not required to alter both flights as per the travellers original schedule? After all is it the passengers fault that Virgin and its staff cannot find an agreement? Why should a passenger who had originally booked a 2 week holiday be penalised?

[Pete]

Stu - I totally understand what you're saying regarding the inbound, but unfortunately it doesn't work that way for a number of reasons, but most importantly because the knock on effects would cause even more havoc trying to figure out who gets moved onto which flight and what availability is left. It's also important to remember, Virgin Atlantic being the airline side of the business doesn't think like a package tour company, and a set number of days outside the country isn't every passengers priority.

But yes, I do understand the frustration; you're amongst people with similar concerns, and as a better picture is formed no doubt there will be plenty of advice available on back-up strategies. What makes it tricky to offer very much in the way of advice at this stage is because not only do we not know if there will be a stirke, but more importantly we don't know *when* there will be a strike.

Here are some potential scenarios;

1. Cabin crew vote 'no' to stirke - your holiday is unaffected
2. Cabin crew vote 'yes' to strike, but VS re-negotiate and cabin crew accept - your holiday is unaffected
3. Cabin crew vote 'yes' to strike, but the day(s) are not those which you are flying - your holiday is unaffected
4. Cabin crew vote 'yes' to strike, but Virgin maintain service with remaining non-striking crew - your holiday is unaffected
5. Cabin crew vote 'yes' to strike, your flight is cancelled, but Virgin re-route you on the same day with a different carrier - your arrival time may be different, but essentially your holiday is unaffected
6. Cabin crew vote 'yes' to strike, your flight is cancelled but Virgin offer you a flight the next day plus compensation (as per EU rules) - a delay to the start of your holiday, for which you receive compensation.

As you can see, most of these options mean your holiday is unaffected, and that's probably what will happen [y]