Back from SIN, a WT+ and PE comparison

Just got in from Changi this morning, and thought I'd post a comparison of BA WT+ and Virgin's PE.

Outbound - Fri Jan 4th

No WT+ line at T4, had to wait over 25 minutes in a long line.[V]
Unable to change my seat to a bulkhead at the desk, but in reality I actually had one.
No Priority boarding for WT+
Seat on 747-400 very comfortable, with a good footrest
Food was very average. Not a patch on Virgin's PE offering
Service was equal to Virgin's, although missing the fruit and hot towels
On time arrival.
No priority baggage, first bags off after 45 minutes.

Inbound - Fri Jan 11th

Dedicated WT+ Check in @ Changi
Seat on 777 was comfortable, with a good footrest, seat sides tatty.
Food was very average again. Although breakfast was very good. [^]
On time arrival.
No priority baggage, first bags off after 50 minutes.

Overall, WT+ was expensive for what it offers, I chose it because the Singapore Airlines alternative was Economy, as my company does not permit J travel.

The Virgin PE product certainly outshines the BA one in a number of areas, I'll stick to PE as much as I can for the time being.

[Neil]

Thanks for the comparison Mark. Whilst both obviously have the same extra space advantage over Y, its the little touches that VS have introduced that really make the new PE product a market leader. I think BA's offering is pretty rubbish really and my parents thought so when they tried it coming back from MIA last year, basically Y with a bit more room, where as VS is a whole step up from Y in term of service, meals and perks.

I wouldn't be surprised to see BA try and match/improve on the VS PE service some time soon as I have a feeling they may lose some of this market.

Neil

[mitchja]

Even before VS upped their W service and replaced the seats, I would have still said VS PE was better than BA's WT+ (having done both several times).

The only real advantage I could see to BA's WT+ is that on one of their old 744 configs (high J config I think), there was 1 WT+ seat on it's own at the front of either side of the cabin which had a proper leg rest. It's was a great seat when travelling on your own [y]

Now that the BA 744 config has changed, I have no idea if this single seat still exists though.

Regards

Originally posted by Neil
I wouldn't be surprised to see BA try and match/improve on the VS PE service some time soon as I have a feeling they may lose some of this market.

Although they have had quite a long time to do so, but have chosen not to.

Originally posted by Bean Counter

Originally posted by Neil
I wouldn't be surprised to see BA try and match/improve on the VS PE service some time soon as I have a feeling they may lose some of this market.

Although they have had quite a long time to do so, but have chosen not to.

and as BA have just changed thier cabin configuration to fit more WT+ seats to meet the ever growing demand for this 4th cabin at the cost of less WT and moving club down the aircraft, I can not really see why they should be bothered. The product is already selling like hot cakes.

[Neil]

Originally posted by Bean Counter

Originally posted by Neil
I wouldn't be surprised to see BA try and match/improve on the VS PE service some time soon as I have a feeling they may lose some of this market.

Although they have had quite a long time to do so, but have chosen not to.

Yes, but they have been concentrating on their new CW seat and rolling that out across the fleet. I imagine they will only concentrate on one major cabin/seat change at a time.

and as BA have just changed thier cabin configuration to fit more WT+ seats to meet the ever growing demand for this 4th cabin at the cost of less WT and moving club down the aircraft, I can not really see why they should be bothered. The product is already selling like hot cakes.

Its a good point and I have said pretty much the same about the VS Y seat/product myself, but I still think/hope all airlines are looking at changing/improving their cabins, seats and services. VS were selling the old PE very well but still made changes.

One can hope so Neil. I have never travelled in either cabins myself but have walked through them. The PE experience looks like a far better one to my eye and I would have an issue in recommending anyone to try the WT+ over PE (if the costs were comparable). However, given that BA serve a vast more routes than the current VS offering, looking at changing this fairly new product at a time where their FIRST is in dire need if a re-vamp (seat & cabin if not cabin service (which is exemplorary in my opinion)) may not be as high on their list of priorities (mid term plan) as we may like it to be and be on a longer term plan.

Regards,

HG

Originally posted by Neil
Thanks for the comparison Mark. Whilst both obviously have the same extra space advantage over Y, its the little touches that VS have introduced that really make the new PE product a market leader. I think BA's offering is pretty rubbish really and my parents thought so when they tried it coming back from MIA last year, basically Y with a bit more room, where as VS is a whole step up from Y in term of service, meals and perks.

I wouldn't be surprised to see BA try and match/improve on the VS PE service some time soon as I have a feeling they may lose some of this market.

Neil

I think to describe a product as 'rubbish' is a bit of a sweeping statement .... quite what makes it rubbish ? .... you then say its 'Y with a bit more room' I thought the original concept of a PE product was exactly that ! ..... dont lose sight of the fact that it was not that long ago that VS offered the same food and essentially the same cabin service in PE as Y .... did you call that rubbish ?

I have flown both and they are both a little different with pro's and con's of both.

For me the reason for flying in a PE/WT+ cabin is for that little extra comfort during the flight i.e. the seating (which they both comparable, not for food, drink, hot towels etc.

The checkin at T4 has been mentioned ... there is a dedicated checkin at T4 for WT+ ... which is easy to miss as they all look the same.

Again IMHO I dont think BA need to compete with VS on this one with a cabin upgrade because as others have mentioned, they offer it on so many more routes than VS and the routes that they do compete on its always pretty full, why fix something thats not broke ?

Just my 2c worth

Mark [:D]

I did ask a BA rep at T4 if there was a WT+ dedicated checkin, and I was told there was not one.

Its right at the right hand end of the Y check ins, (or at least it used to be!) although I think it is an indication of its distinctiveness that BA badged (I say badged because they may well have been contract staff) didn't know about it! I have also seen them at outlying stations. In PVG they had a dedicated check in recently for example - shock horror I had to use it because the business check in was, well, busy. The indignity!

[Neil]

Originally posted by mas66
I think to describe a product as 'rubbish' is a bit of a sweeping statement .... quite what makes it rubbish ? ..

For me it is rubbish because on a MIA trip for instance I can pay pretty much the same money to fly VS and get a much better pre flight experience and a much better on board experience. If pax like my parents have no particular loyalty to one brand/airline had a choice then surely they are stupid not to pick VS over BA. I know the main benefit is the extra leg room but if you can have all the other nice extra perks too then it certainly helps them think who to book with next time. Granted BA go to more destinations but that can't be used as a pull point otherwise Virgin would never get any pax on routes that both airlines fly to.

I know all PE was originally just Y with more space but things evolve and VS have raised the bar with the PE offering just like they did with the UCS, so for me comparing the 2 products the side by side VS wins hands down.

Of course these are just my opinions, but as a pax who only in the last 3 or so years has started flying premium cabins, VS grabed my attention by appealing to me more with what was on offer and has kept me since. Now I am starting to fly J, because I have been impressed with them and I am now loyal to Virgin they get first chance to impress and keep me. If BA had a better product on paper initially then it could of been different and I could be spending my money with them and not a competitor. I know I am only 1 (2 including t'other half) pax but how many others are the same?

So I do think BA need to improve their WT+ offering as this is an ever increasing and popular market, with it being the first step for many pax on to even higher class of travel.

Neil

I do seem to recall that there was significant debate on this site about whether the VS PE product was value for money before they upgraded it. I think it would be fair to say that many people felt that the price increase did not justify the additional leg room (and some when so far as to call PE a con and rubbish, god forbid!), although it was often pointed out that load-factors remained high. In fact the load factor was often pointed to as a reason for VS not to invest in the product. But despite the cold and compelling logic of good loads, they went ahead and improved the product anyway[y], which just goes to show what a thoroughly eccentric chappie Mr Ridgway is (perhaps Mrs Ridgway really pulls the strings?).

Anyway, I am afraid I cannot envisage an organisation as investorcentric as BA emulating VS's profligate activities in improving and already overwhelmingly popular product.

Originally posted by Neil

Originally posted by mas66
I think to describe a product as 'rubbish' is a bit of a sweeping statement .... quite what makes it rubbish ? ..

For me it is rubbish because on a MIA trip for instance I can pay pretty much the same money to fly VS and get a much better pre flight experience and a much better on board experience. If pax like my parents have no particular loyalty to one brand/airline had a choice then surely they are stupid not to pick VS over BA. I know the main benefit is the extra leg room but if you can have all the other nice extra perks too then it certainly helps them think who to book with next time. Granted BA go to more destinations but that can't be used as a pull point otherwise Virgin would never get any pax on routes that both airlines fly to.

I know all PE was originally just Y with more space but things evolve and VS have raised the bar with the PE offering just like they did with the UCS, so for me comparing the 2 products the side by side VS wins hands down.

Of course these are just my opinions, but as a pax who only in the last 3 or so years has started flying premium cabins, VS grabed my attention by appealing to me more with what was on offer and has kept me since. Now I am starting to fly J, because I have been impressed with them and I am now loyal to Virgin they get first chance to impress and keep me. If BA had a better product on paper initially then it could of been different and I could be spending my money with them and not a competitor. I know I am only 1 (2 including t'other half) pax but how many others are the same?

So I do think BA need to improve their WT+ offering as this is an ever increasing and popular market, with it being the first step for many pax on to even higher class of travel.

Neil

Hi Neil

I fully respect your opinions and the choices that you make. My point really is that because you choose one product over another it doesn't always follow that the one you dont choose is rubbish, especially when you dont even mention flying in the WT+ cabin yourself ? .... I suppose it all comes down to your definition of rubbish [;)]

Cheers

Mark

Currently there are a host of changes going on in the PE sector. VS are nearing completion of theirs. JAL are starting a new service with similar levels. Qantas are introducing 40 inch seats. BMI with 49 inches. All of these compete (or may in future) with VS and BA on routes. It is possible that BA simply don't want to jump first and are seeing where the new PE standard will lie.

Forgot to mention, the amenity packs (how could I !)

Plus side - Toothbrush much better, and so was the toothpaste.
Minus Side - No ear plugs

Used my UC eyeshade, as it much better than BA's

For me the biggest factor in booking BA WT+ rather than Y is that all fares earn miles and TPs unlike all but the most expensive Y tickets.The WT+ seat is not bad but not worth a vast premium,my last couple of WT+ flights have been booked in sales at approx £500 which is about what it's worth IMO.Haven't had the pleasure of the new PE seat it does look very nice,loved the original PE seat and hated that plastic backed monstrosity.