The ethics of FF Miles

There's a discussion going on in the UK about where miles earnt on business flights are really owned by the business and should be used for offsetting future business flights. See link. I'm guessing that things like VS Flying Co will head this off as it provides a clear distinction between miles owned by the employer (Flying Co) and those by the employee (FC).

This is one of those rumbling stories that have knocked about for a few years. Personally I think there's quite a good deal of hypocrisy going on in regard to MPs who are only doing what thousands (millions?) of others do. But there's added hypocrisy if government employees are forbidden from doing it yet MPs are not.

On a personal level, I see the use of miles as a reward / perk for the amount of weekends I spend travelling unpaid to meetings in different continents on Mondays or Fridays, for the 15hr+ days I work etc.

As to company policies, there's always the tax man hanging over these things, if a policy expressly makes it OK then I guarantee some Inland Revenue vulture will work out the taxable benefit!

I believe if a company regually sends it staff on trips, the company has a responsability to itself/shareholders to save as much money as possible, one way of doing this is keeping the FF miles to offset future costs.

However if a company sends an employee away once in a blue moon, there is little to be gained by earning the FF miles, so you might as well let the employee keep them as a perk.

Taxable in some countries when used for personal use.

[Pete]

Brings up some interesting logistical questions, such as because miles are (generally) not transferable, what happens when an employee leaves a company and takes a healthy balance of points with him.

Or, if he adds his own miles to the point when flying on holiday or taking a trip unrelated to the company.

What legal rights does an employer have to know the contents of an individuals frequent flyer account?

It's a minefield, I tell you...

As Pete says, a minefield. I think the only way to do it would be for the company to insist on you using specific hotels / flight arrangements where any miles / points accrued directly into a company account and never touch the individual at all.

A couple of further complications;

1) If you work for a company that passes on expenses to the client, shouldn't the miles / points belong the client ?

2) If I use my personal credit card when on business, does the company have rights to any Tesco points I get ?

3) How useful are airmiles when it comes to the fact that we often have to travel at very short notice and can't schedule around the availability of reward flights?

There have, on occasion, been rumblings about this within the company for which I work. Just about everyone sees miles / points as some recompense for the unsocial hours and a travel policy that keeps all but the few in economy, no matter the distance.

Paul

I will echo the minefield that this subject opens up [?]

The company I now work for allows me to keep FF miles providing that the FF program does not influence the flights you book !! Fairly sensible I think. This is all written into company travel policy.

My old employer allowed you to keep them (as they cant take them back) but the policy was that you could only redeem them for business travel, that said, I was never aware of them enforcing this.

The only time they took issue with anything was at a time VS were giving away an 'any destination' roundtrip Y ticket each time you travelled in UC. A colleague of mine claimed hers from VS and duly booked a trip to HKG. Our travel dept told her she could not have it and invoked a discipline procedure against her. Long story short they lost on the basis that VS said that the ticket was given to the passenger with her bum on the UC seat regardless of who paid for the ticket. So she took her holiday in HKG [:p]

Cheers

Mark [:D]

Originally posted by slinky09
On a personal level, I see the use of miles as a reward / perk for the amount of weekends I spend travelling unpaid to meetings in different continents on Mondays or Fridays, for the 15hr+ days I work etc.

Exaxtly. I earn no more for my job over a comparative role which doesn't involve the sort of disruption above. The miles are compensation for this, both for me and my partner.

[Scrooge]

For me work paid travel is rare, however our company guidelines a very clear, you fly, you keep the miles...just their way of saying sorry for having us endure the pain that flying can be.

On that note I have to check to see if I can now fly up front of the plane due to my last promotion [?]

Miles are a pretty rubbish compensation for short haul travel.

[Scrooge]

Originally posted by jimbob247
Miles are a pretty rubbish compensation for short haul travel.

It depends, there are still airlines that offer a minimum of 500 miles for a flight, if your company if paying for your flights why not.

Also here we have Southwest, they do it by number of flights flown, figure out how to play the system and you can have a lot of fun.

What a minefield? I wonder what would happen if for example, you had the same the FF account for work and leisure, earned a higher tier status because of your leisure travel and thus the bonus miles associated with that level, would work then have the right to use those as well???

[mcmbenjamin]

I think companies would rather airfares are discounted to include the cost of the FFPs.

Oh and BTW, Do you deduct any benefit (miles/cash back/point/etc.) from using a personal credit card to purchase stuff for work on your expense report?

Originally posted by mcmbenjamin
I think companies would rather airfares are discounted to include the cost of the FFPs.

True, but then again letting your staff accrue the miles and other points takes some of the heat out of other pettifogging issues like pay, travel rules etc.

Originally posted by mcmbenjamin
Oh and BTW, Do you deduct any benefit (miles/cash back/point/etc.) from using a personal credit card to purchase stuff for work on your expense report?

Nope. Nor do I charge work the lost interest on my savings when I have to pay the credit card bill and my expenses (around £850 per week) haven't been paid either because our outsourced AP facility is leaden footed or some numpty gets me to do work and then fails to assign me to a project code.

Paul

[fozzyo]

The airlines do this for the benefit of the passenger, not the paying customer - two different people in the case of most business travel.

I really don't see what the problem is with the passenger getting the miles? Seems so stupid and pathetic for a company to try and claim back the miles. How are the T&C's worded for the membership / reward of miles?

What's wrong with a company making its staff feel slightly appreciated by giving them something that costs them bugger all in time and effort, but would cost them to do something about? Or if they wish to have such a policy seems easy enough. The company travel department refuses to pass on any FF details to the airline. It is up to the individual to join a programme and ensure their details are attached to the booking.

Mat

Whilst many replies on this thread beg the question as to whether the company owns the FF Miles, and I agree that should be down to company policy, the event that triggered this debate involved the Speaker of the House of Commons, who is a public servant. My view on this particular case is that he was frequently flying the same route, at public expense, and could have used his FF Miles to book the same flight. In fact it appears he had so many miles that he was able to use them for several members of his family to fly.
I view this as kinda like a BOGOFF: he buys (at public expense) ca.10 flights and receives the eleventh free. He should use the miles to for the public's benefit.
Come to think of it now, hasn't there been a smell about the Speaker's wife's taxi fares being claimed on expenses when she goes to the supermarket? If she buys a chicken for consumption at a dinner hosting guests and gets a second free, does the second chicken belong to the public or does she get to keep it? And if she keeps it should she only claim half the taxi fare on expenses?

I had always thought that civil servants could not use miles. I know a chap who plays sport for the army, and travels frequently, but is not allowed to keep or even collect (I think) the miles.