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I agree, they have already taken one crew-member off the LHR 744,if they take any more off, then the service will suffer even further. It's already a struggle trying to offer a decent service in the premium cabin with 64 passengers and only three crew.
And on the subject of the IFBT assisting with service. Health and safety/Food hygiene will not allow them to offer treatments and serve food. They are allowed to help out with the water round but that's it. So unfortunately having two IFBT's on board, with one doing treatments and helping with the service just wont happen.
If you guys really want us to keep the IFBTs (as do we crew) then you all need to make some very loud noises in the direction of the management and customer service very soon.

Of Richard's choices, it's A firmly for me - interesting that your options don't include the status quo so you may already accept that one crew member is going by some means?

Keeping the standard of service high on as many fronts as possible leads me to this - why keep an IFBT who can provide a service to a max. of 33% of the UC cabin instead pf having a FT crew member can ensure that e.g. if you're in PE then the (supposedly) two dedicated crew are always there, why make a (good) FSM work harder and interact with passengers less while a few people can get hot hands, why have FAs struggling with meal and drink service etc. ... now I'll accept that crew down can result in team spirit and all, it can also result in crap service so I go for crew up!

I do agree though, for all airlines and obviously VS, costs are up, passenger numbers may fall with the current economic woes, therefore margins down - what do you do?

PS just read VSCSS comments and I think you're right. It's not desirable but the options may be worse.

Originally posted by vscss
In case anyone still does not know the outcome of todays meeting between Virgin and the IFBT's here are the facts (IN MY OWN WORDS!!)


What does our J pax think??

Hi VSCSS,

Thanks for that.

WIthout wanting to repeat myself (I have replied above) - as a J pax I have to disagree with. If it has to happen that VS cut a post, I would rather see a IFBT onboard and another cabin crew member cut for the reasoning in my earlier posts.

I hope as a Gold card holder and very regular UC pax, Virgin will be contacting me for my views in the near future.

Regards,

HG

Originally posted by McMaddog
Totally agree with Richard and, as the VS website shows, some treatments can be done at the suite so only 1 station would still be required. Basically 1 IFBT + 1 jobbing IFBT as time permits.

IFBT + Suite + Bar set VS apart. full stop.

Excellent idea/solution. Like most excellent ideas, the solution is so simple.

To extrapalate a little further, if Virgin push, adertise or coerce J and AU passengers to have treatments in the Clubhouse, this would free up the IFBT to carry out more treatments on board, for those that did not have time in the Clubhouse.

Perhaps as somebody else said, offer IFBT only on day flights.

Personally, I think it will be a mistake for Virgin to lose the IFBT. I dont use them myself, I make my bed up as soon as I can and sleep on my flights. However, I do know that the IFBT is popular with other passenegers.

vscss
I don't think we can say that the IFBT is not relevant anymore - except for LGW aircraft (most of my flights!) If cuts HAVE to be made, that would be the place - BUT why do cuts have to be made to UC service?
Surely we should be looking for ways to improve UC & PE service as that is where the profit margins come from that keep VS flying.
Your comment 'we don't have enough crew as it stands to give a good service' does rather tell the story!
Do we improve things by cutting further?

You're so right Bill S, the last thing they should be doing is cutting the J service when the competition is hotting up. However, the management are intent on finding ways to save money. I dont know if anyone has noticed that the 'starbucks' style service is now also being delivered on mco and caribbean flights. It's very embarrassing offering this service on longer flights.

I would prefer the extra crew member and V-Port!

Just received a FC email about the enhancement: (Please remove if not legal etc, etc....)

'Dear Member,

I wanted to let you know that we are reviewing the future of our Upper Class In Flight Beauty Therapy Service, and also why we are doing it.

We launched this service in 1990, at that time it was a great innovation and I know passengers loved it. However recent research has shown us that the in-flight treatments are not valued as much now. Tastes and preferences have changed especially since the introduction of fully flat beds and enhanced in-flight entertainment. The success of the Cowshed Spa and Bumble and bumble salon in the Heathrow Clubhouse indicates that Upper Class passengers prefer the wider range of hair and beauty treatments and spa facilities we can offer on the ground rather than in the air. I'm also aware that as our In Flight Beauty Therapist can only treat up to 16 passengers in the Upper Class Cabin during the flight this can cause disappointment.

We have asked all our In Flight Beauty Therapists to take part in the review and therefore over the next few weeks we may not have therapists on board. I'm really sorry about this and if you are travelling with us I hope it won't cause too much inconvenience.

I will of course let you know the result of the review, which is expected sometime during May. We really value our In Flight Beauty Therapists and if the review concludes that the service should be withdrawn we will be able to offer them alternative Cabin Crew jobs. Additionally, in due course, we would like to boost the number of treatments that we offer you on the ground by increasing the number of beauty therapists at the Heathrow Clubhouse and look to offering new facilities at our Clubhouses around the world.

We look forward to seeing you onboard soon.

Kind Regards


Richard Branson'

For me it's simple:


If I want to get from A to B cheaply I go economy and don't have much if any expectation that the flight is going to be pleasurable.

If I want comfort, I travel up the front. To date VS has offered me the right package. I do not look too hard at the business class price of other airlines as I know and enjoy all the 'extras' that are the Virgin experience.

Start eroding my UC 'experience' for whatever reason and price will become the deciding factor. I fly on business and pleasure but don't have excessive demands and can't help feeling VS are going down the wrong track.

Originally posted by AlanA
I would prefer the extra crew member and V-Port!

Just received a FC email about the enhancement: (Please remove if not legal etc, etc....)

'Dear Member,

I wanted to let you know that we are reviewing the future of our Upper Class In Flight Beauty Therapy Service, and also why we are doing it.

We launched this service in 1990, at that time it was a great innovation and I know passengers loved it. However recent research has shown us that the in-flight treatments are not valued as much now. Tastes and preferences have changed especially since the introduction of fully flat beds and enhanced in-flight entertainment. The success of the Cowshed Spa and Bumble and bumble salon in the Heathrow Clubhouse indicates that Upper Class passengers prefer the wider range of hair and beauty treatments and spa facilities we can offer on the ground rather than in the air. I'm also aware that as our In Flight Beauty Therapist can only treat up to 16 passengers in the Upper Class Cabin during the flight this can cause disappointment.

We have asked all our In Flight Beauty Therapists to take part in the review and therefore over the next few weeks we may not have therapists on board. I'm really sorry about this and if you are travelling with us I hope it won't cause too much inconvenience.

I will of course let you know the result of the review, which is expected sometime during May. We really value our In Flight Beauty Therapists and if the review concludes that the service should be withdrawn we will be able to offer them alternative Cabin Crew jobs. Additionally, in due course, we would like to boost the number of treatments that we offer you on the ground by increasing the number of beauty therapists at the Heathrow Clubhouse and look to offering new facilities at our Clubhouses around the world.

We look forward to seeing you onboard soon.

Kind Regards


Richard Branson'

I have just received the same.

As a newbie gold guy - can someone please advise what EMail address I should best use for my reply to be read by 'Richard Branson's Office' ?

Many thanks,

HG

Originally posted by RichardMannion
Anyway, lets see if VS do consult their paying customers,

I fear this 'consultation' is nothing to do with customers. Being ninety days, sadly it sounds more like a 'consultation period' legally required by an employer who is investigating downsizing by 100 or more prior to actual implemention.

H

Originally posted by Howard Long

Originally posted by RichardMannion
Anyway, lets see if VS do consult their paying customers,

I fear this 'consultation' is nothing to do with customers. Being ninety days, sadly it sounds more like a 'consultation period' legally required by an employer who is investigating downsizing by 100 or more prior to actual implemention.

H

Totally - and interestingly SRB only provides one option in his note (which I too just received):

if the review concludes that the service should be withdrawn we will be able to offer them alternative Cabin Crew jobs

Sounds a done deal!

[mitchja]

Call my cynical but I just wonder if VS are just softening the blow here by calling todays meeting a review rather than making an out-right decision, only after seeing how the press got hold of this before todays meeting [:?]

I just wonder if this hadn't have got out, whether todays result would be the same.

Regards

Originally posted by mitchja
Call my cynical but I just wonder if VS are just softening the blow here by calling todays meeting a review rather than making an out-right decision, only after seeing how the press got hold of this before todays meeting [:?]

I just wonder if this hadn't have got out, whether todays result would be the same.

Regards

No, as Howard said earlier this is a formal legal process which I'm sure many like myself have gone through when facing redundancy or a significant change of job. When large numbers of staff are affected a consultation period has to be entered into and those affected are put on notice that they're at risk. It is legally impossible to have made a decision about the outcome before the consultation process has ended.

As a Gatwick traveller (one day, Heathrow, one day) who has travelled many times in the front cabin in the last couple of years, I feel hardly qualified to add my comments to this thread, however on the subjects of costs / margins etc, I am alone in noticing there has been a marked increase in prices in the last 6-12 months.

The £500 - £600 premium economy fare has vanished and is now around £700 - £800 +

The £1200 - £1400 z upper class fare is a very rare beast these days and now starts around £1500 + +.

Now, before any comments on the difference between Gatwick fares and Heathrow fares ie an u/c fare to Miami for example, these are the prices I have been paying for the last 5 - 10 trips from Gatwick and there has been a marked increase in prices.

Increased prices + cuts in service - how bad is this getting for Virgin ? [?]

thanks

David

A question for some of you who would rather have the IFBT instead of another CCM:
So where do you all suggest we loose someone from, if its not the IFBT??

One of the biggest pax complaint onboard is about the standard of inflight service and time it takes to complete the meal service,(Normally 2 hours plus)
Loosing a CCM would not help this matter.

The only service an IFBT can help with is water onboard, so if they stay and another CCM goes instead the service and all ther pax will really suffer.

We have all seen comments about the service slipping onboard and trust me as an FSM I know loosing just one CCM would have a huge inpact on the service:

On a LHR 747 we only have 4 crew in economy for 228 pax, 2-3 in Premium for 62 pax, and 6 in Upper for 54 pax. We also have 2 CSS one in J and one in Y, and also the FSM. (This is if you are lucky not to be crew down, which currently happens on 62% of our flights!!)

Is there anything our customers can do to help our IFBT's?

[RichardMannion]

Originally posted by vscss
A question for some of you who would rather have the IFBT instead of another CCM:
So where do you all suggest we loose someone from, if its not the IFBT??

One of the biggest pax complaint onboard is about the standard of inflight service and time it takes to complete the meal service,(Normally 2 hours plus)
Loosing a CCM would not help this matter.

The only service an IFBT can help with is water onboard, so if they stay and another CCM goes instead the service and all ther pax will really suffer.

We have all seen comments about the service slipping onboard and trust me as an FSM I know loosing just one CCM would have a huge inpact on the service:

On a LHR 747 we only have 4 crew in economy for 228 pax, 2-3 in Premium for 62 pax, and 6 in Upper for 54 pax. We also have 2 CSS one in J and one in Y, and also the FSM. (This is if you are lucky not to be crew down, which currently happens on 62% of our flights!!)

See that is interesting, I've heard customers complain about the quality of service delivered by cabin crew, and not about how long it has took for the meal service to be done (esp. if they are flying from LGW or LHR as they are likely to have shovelled food in at the CH). To be controversial, I can't think of a time where the service has been poor due to a lack of crew, it's more been down to a member/group of crew that were disinterested. Some of already agreed with me that some of best flights have been with crew down. If there were 50 crew onboard, doesn't necessarily mean that service delivered is going to be fabulous. If you are crew down, then yes it does mean you may have to work a bit harder but that's life like any other job. Again, I'm not anti-crew; I'm just saying what I have seen on a regular basis. On the whole VS flights are 7 hours plus, and all the crew are not rushed off their feet constantly.

I've had my meal served to me before by an IFBT, likewise for clearing courses away from me and asking if I'd like another cup of tea.

See my point is that I regularly see sizeable periods of time onboard where the crew aren't busy, and are sat reading OK or Hello etc. If I fly in the future and don't have an IFBT, and see crew with 'free' time then it doesn't bode well with me. As I said, optimisation.

VSCSS, please stand corrected on your comment 'the only service the ifbt can help with is water'.

I disagree completely by saying the ONLY service we CAN NOT help out with is serving food!!

Whilst it is some consolation that if the worst thing happens and the IFBT role is cut, the IFBT's they know they have another job to go to - even if it is not what they want to be doing.

I haven't seen anything about the BTS role and the fact that they are going to be offered crew positions. They are on ground contracts and were at a different meeting to IFBT's so i HOPE they will be offered the same. can anyone confirm this?

Originally posted by the-ifbt
VSCSS, please stand corrected on your comment 'the only service the ifbt can help with is water'.

I disagree completely by saying the ONLY service we CAN NOT help out with is serving food!!

That's is what I thought the-ifbt and have witnessed - I have often had a glass of wine poured and my plates etc cleared by an IFBT during meal times when, presumably, no-one was able to have a treatment. Apart from 'man' the doors at take off landing and perhpas lots more I am unaware off. It is sometimes the FSM who is invisable on the flights I have taken !!


Regards,

HG

I feel bad now, I've often overlooked this service from VS... I think that Virgin should focus on offering more Heathrow Clubhouse-like features at some of their clubhouses abroad... and possibly take over some existing clubhouses that are shared with other airlines...

But then again, I'd hate for someone to lose their job because of the demand for in-flight beauty treatments... I think the review will be helpful...

Quite right, i'll say this loud and clear because it is FACT...

IFBT's are CREW, we can and do work as crew, minus the food bit,lol!

We are trained crew, we do the cabin crew training plus additional training...picture this...some kind of emergency occurs onboard, lets say medical (myself having medical qualifications)..man dying, i'm the ifbt and closest crew member to him..do you think i'm gonna save his life or will i turn and say, sorry the only thing i can do to help is get you a glass of water..or a how about a nice hand and arm massage? No i'll save his live just as any other crew member would try to do!

I know that is a bit dramatic and getting off the subject so i'll just end by saying thankyou to everybody in support of the IFBT service, as it shows we have done a good job!

Originally posted by the-ifbt
Quite right, i'll say this loud and clear because it is FACT...

IFBT's are CREW, we can and do work as crew, minus the food bit,lol!

We are trained crew, we do the cabin crew training plus additional training...picture this...some kind of emergency occurs onboard, lets say medical (myself having medical qualifications)..man dying, i'm the ifbt and closest crew member to him..do you think i'm gonna save his life or will i turn and say, sorry the only thing i can do to help is get you a glass of water..or a how about a nice hand and arm massage? No i'll save his live just as any other crew member would try to do!

I know that is a bit dramatic and getting off the subject so i'll just end by saying thankyou to everybody in support of the IFBT service, as it shows we have done a good job!

I have said it beofe but I think it is worth repeating - you IFBTs are THE reason Ilove to fly Upper Class; apart from being the USP for Virgin, from my experince, you are also the hardest most professional members of the CC and also the frendiest to a solo traveller.

Power to you,

Regards,

HG [y]

Thankyou HG, very kind, but rest assured should IFBT service be taken away from Virgin i like to think that those of us who adore our jobs and are passionate about the company we work for will continue to give you great customer service onboard, plus that friendly chat and bit of banter when required, lol. Even if it means the long trek up to the front to find you!

On the whole VS flights are 7 hours plus, and all the crew are not rushed off their feet constantly.


Richard, I've done flights well over 7 hours and the only time I have sat down is take off and landing. True there is often not much to do on a night flight but we often don't stop on day flights, particularly Vegas, Syd - Hk, inbound from India. To lose a crew member would be hellish, service would suffer without a doubt