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[RichardMannion]

Originally posted by southernbelle
On the whole VS flights are 7 hours plus, and all the crew are not rushed off their feet constantly.


Richard, I've done flights well over 7 hours and the only time I have sat down is take off and landing. True there is often not much to do on a night flight but we often don't stop on day flights, particularly Vegas, Syd - Hk, inbound from India. To lose a crew member would be hellish, service would suffer without a doubt

Point taken (I know FSM's can be extremely busy), but how often do flights leave crew down anyway? Speaking to crew on our PVG sectors, they struggled to remember the last time they had the full contingent.

[buns]

I for one will be sorry to see IFBTs go[:#][:#]

If there was a way that customer pressure could influence VS then I would join the group as quick as a flash.

However, I have to concur with Howard that the term 'consultation' is a legal device in this instance and that those pleasurable experiences on the few occasions I have been fortunate may well be a thing of a past.

All of us are reeling with the increased costs of fuel, whether it be flying, filling up the car or buying groceries. I am sure i am not alone in having to cut back in some areas to continues doing the things I really enjoy.

My heart and support goes out to every single IFBT and I hope i have got it wrong this time

buns

Can you believe after all these years I still do not know how to quote??

It would appear the majority of flights go crew down, I had a full crew 2 weeks ago and that was my first quite possibly this year!!

Just wanted to add that to any IFBT's reading this site, you are well loved and respected by all of your flying colleagues. All of my best memories of Virgin include the IFBT, if you go I will miss you all so much. You always were the ladies of the sky, this is such a sad day.

I haven't seen anything about the BTS role and the fact that they are going to be offered crew positions. They are on ground contracts and were at a different meeting to IFBT's so i HOPE they will be offered the same. can anyone confirm this?

I'm in the IAD lounge waiting for tonight's VS022. On arrival all UC passengers are being given a letter explaining that there won't be a IFBT - basically the same letter that has been sent by email. So far there's no riot, in fact there's very little reaction at all. But that may be because the service in the club house is superb and having spent more than a few hours in the past week in various United and Continental lounges in the US, the difference on what Virgin supply in that respect is so marked.

I had a great treatment at Heathrow on my way out after a rapid and seamless check-in through the dedicated security channel. I've ordered my clubhouse dinner - aromatic spiced chicken, followed by slow cooked brisket of beef, and key lime pie - and my main concern tonight is that I get as much sleep as possible so to be fresh for meetings in London tomorrow. I do feel sorry for the IFBT's - and it seems very clear that Virgin have already made their mind up about their future - but for what it is worth, my view is that if cuts are needed, and the reality is that it is likely to be a difficult time for Virgin and others over the next year, the IFBT is something that I can live without. But it would be good to see them replaced by treatments in lounges other than Heathrow.

[RichardMannion]

I'd say they should cut-back on those K-ID packs - that should save some pennies. They could always start charging for alcoholic drinks in Y [}:)] Now to save money elsewhere, they should reinstate the req for Flying Club that you have to first do 3 returns in Y in a year, or a sector in PE/UC before you can start collecting miles. That would save quite a bit of money. In general, I see no real loyalty anymore towards a carrier from the Economy sector, price is king and class-leading will only cause you financial concern.

Originally posted by RichardMannion
As I said, optimisation.

Which applies at the busiest times and the slowest times - which one would we all trade?

I'll leave VSCSS's comment about 62% of flights being crew down as good enough - after all if they don't know ...

[i]Originally posted by zootvd[i]
I feel bad now, I've often overlooked this service from VS... I think that Virgin should focus on offering more Heathrow Clubhouse-like features at some of their clubhouses abroad... and possibly take over some existing clubhouses that are shared with other airlines...

I very much got this to be subtext of SRBs letter - which hopefully means more investment in non-Heathrow club houses.

I hope the IFBTs take the crew positions - most I have met have been eminently suitable and provide great service.

Are the ifbt a casualty of the protracted and slightly bitter at times pay dispute last year.

[RichardMannion]

Originally posted by easygoingeezer
Are the ifbt a casualty of the protracted and slightly bitter at times pay dispute last year.

It's an interesting point as in the grand scheme of things, they still have a job as crew if they would like to take it. So what's the impact overall - well we as pax no longer have IFBTS and there is an influx of good quality crew. Guessing it will slow down the need to recruit new junior staff as there is possibly an influx of crew from IFBT positions. Or maybe it's a chance to clear out some of the dead wood in the crew ranks as there is a pool of skilled crew sat waiting. Controversial as ever.

Originally posted by RichardMannion
I'd say they should cut-back on those K-ID packs - that should save some pennies. They could always start charging for alcoholic drinks in Y

Oh Richard what a scrooge you are!!
poor kids, you would not say this if your child had been looking forward to the KID pack!!! [:p]
And alcohol is probably dirt cheap for the amount the Y pax drink . you lot flying in UC probably sup more bubbly (expensive stuff) than all the Ys innexpensive drinks!!! (hic hic)[:0]

Scarlet

Originally posted by Scarlet46

Originally posted by RichardMannion
I'd say they should cut-back on those K-ID packs - that should save some pennies. They could always start charging for alcoholic drinks in Y

And alcohol is probably dirt cheap for the amount the Y pax drink . you lot flying in UC probably sup more bubbly (expensive stuff) than all the Ys innexpensive drinks!!! (hic hic)[:0]

Scarlet

OMG Scarlet - I trust you post in jest ??

I would have it a guess many Y pax consume more per head than J - esp on B&S routes (given the amount of times the Y bar runs dry). J pay for booze in their ticket price but one could say, in this day and age, Y should have to pay as they go.

[fozzyo]

Right, they are going to get rid of the IFBT ... the role, but what about the member of crew on board? Does removing the role mean they are removing a member of crew from each flight?

For me Virgin have got to do a few things - they need to realise that each flight involves two airports - and for a significant number of pax that doesn't involve Heathrow. All their advertising and marketing of late seems to be how great the LHR Clubhouse and UC Wing is. Great - I'm at the airport for 2 - 3 hours, I'm sat in the metal tube for at least 7. I'd much rather the investment go where I'm spending most of my time!

In terms of resolving a lot of the service issues on board, I think they need to look at the top - the FSM's. We have some great FSM's on the site who make an invaluable contribution to the site and most importantly their customers in the air. But there are some FSM's who don't run such a good service on-board and one of the comments I hear time and time again is that the service is dictated by the FSM. A good FSM usually equals a good flight, excellent FSM = excellent flight, bad FSM and you get a bad flight.

Its not going to cost too much to spend some time on Cust Service training FSM's and assesing them, but the improvements in quality of service and perceptions by the paying customers will really be noticed and benefit the airline.

Mat

Originally posted by the-ifbt
Quite right, i'll say this loud and clear because it is FACT...

IFBT's are CREW, we can and do work as crew, minus the food bit,lol!

We are trained crew, we do the cabin crew training plus additional training...picture this...some kind of emergency occurs onboard, lets say medical (myself having medical qualifications)..man dying, i'm the ifbt and closest crew member to him..do you think i'm gonna save his life or will i turn and say, sorry the only thing i can do to help is get you a glass of water..or a how about a nice hand and arm massage? No i'll save his live just as any other crew member would try to do!

I know that is a bit dramatic and getting off the subject so i'll just end by saying thankyou to everybody in support of the IFBT service, as it shows we have done a good job!

Ive just read my email from VS today regarding this issue. I think its actually a very sad day indeed, because as others have said VS seem to have made up their mind. Although I'm guessing it must have been fairly sudden as IFBT were still being recruited not so long ago.

Im not alone in saying that the IFBT service is something I have always enjoyed and the fact that the girls perform a dual role is something I have always noticed and admired because with very few exceptions they work bloody hard.

Without knowing the financial in's and out's I can think of a number ways that savings could be made without any detremental effect on PAX.

Whilst some may not miss the service, I certainly will... to me its one of the few things now that make Upper Class just that. From now on it will be pretty much just another business class.

Thanks

Mark

Originally posted by Scarlet46

And alcohol is probably dirt cheap for the amount the Y pax drink . you lot flying in UC probably sup more bubbly (expensive stuff) than all the Ys innexpensive drinks!!! (hic hic)[:0]

Oh yeah, and that's even when VS manage to load it on board to last more than a couple of hours into the flight. And don't start me on the crisps fiasco! [:(!]

If any of you think IFBTs is the only thing about cost management, look at everything else that's going on, from skin flint supplies on board at the low end, surcharges through the middle, to lack of planes when something goes wrong (boy if I were in CPT I think the last thing on my mind would be can I get a hot hand).

VS have got a lot to solve - whatever happened to that famous LROM conversation in Crawley about how everything was going to get oodles better and VS knew what the problems were.

BTW Fozzyo - spot on about FSM training!

From these posts VS still seems to be about the US. I've been there twice and use them most often Eastwards to Japan and India.

So if I could swap IFBT (great after two weeks of rats in my guesthouse in Delhi) for a decent lounge in Delhi rather than the overheated nil service Clipper Lounge there I might go with it. But I don't see anything like a CH in Delhi soon. One flight a day doesn't do it, so it isn't about what we get on ground (nothing) it's all about what we get in the air.

I have lots of miles with VS and will no doubt keep saving for that OZ trip. But starting from the ground Jet Airways (better lounge etc) would now be a serious competitor.

We stay with VS because we believe it's special- the best bit of special is service on board. Despite trying to upset them, your Cabin Crew are your best asset. You, do in general have a great team, providing great service. Personal service. IFBT is an important component of this. Please keep it that way.

Never posted three times in a day on v-flyer before so you can see how important this is.

Originally posted by tugpilot
From these posts VS still seems to be about the US. I've been there twice and use them most often Eastwards to Japan and India.

So if I could swap IFBT (great after two weeks of rats in my guesthouse in Delhi) for a decent lounge in Delhi rather than the overheated nil service Clipper Lounge there I might go with it. But I don't see anything like a CH in Delhi soon. One flight a day doesn't do it, so it isn't about what we get on ground (nothing) it's all about what we get in the air.

I have lots of miles with VS and will no doubt keep saving for that OZ trip. But starting from the ground Jet Airways (better lounge etc) would now be a serious competitor.

We stay with VS because we believe it's special- the best bit of special is service on board. Despite trying to upset them, your Cabin Crew are your best asset. You, do in general have a great team, providing great service. Personal service. IFBT is an important component of this. Please keep it that way.

Never posted three times in a day on v-flyer before so you can see how important this is.

I echoe all you say and I too have never felt the urge to post as much or write to SRB's office, which I will do tomorrow (thanks RM for contact info) - never have I felt this incensed by an airline not listenting to their premium pax.

[RichardMannion]

Originally posted by slinky09
VS have got a lot to solve - whatever happened to that famous LROM conversation in Crawley about how everything was going to get oodles better and VS knew what the problems were.

Oh I think it will take time - a lot of my issues were around crew quality. No real complaints from me on my recent PVG sectors - crew were fine (one of them is posting away in this very thread!). Pointless to have the best USP's in the world if there isn't the service behind it; there were lots of challenges (and still are) to be solved around getting consistently good service onboard. Problem is that some things need cash to make happen or to resolve, and sadly the airline business is not exactly cash rich right now; I'm sure the pay dispute didn't exactly help matters.

RM, I may be blind but can't see the post in which you give the way to get to SRBs office- perhaps you could PM it to me.

In order to get the widest 'consultation' I assume VS will place the letter sent to me or something similar on the Virign Atlantic website - can't see anything there yet.

[Darren Wheeler]

My advise to anyone who wants to pass on their feedback on the plan is to write a letter, stick it in a plain brown manila envelope and post it to Crawley. Address it to SRB directly with 'Private and Confidential' on it.
Most companies have a policy of this going directly to the addressee (not via a minion who will leak the contents).

Forget email, unless you have his direct account, as these go to India and you generally get a stock answer back.

Believe it or not but someone has raised a rather valid point about this all on a.net.

Of course the vast majority on here are UCS FC flyers and therefore are more than willing to pay a bit more to fly VS. After all we could all be flying across the pond in the AI J cabin or to HKG in the J cabin on Oasis (O8).

But for the less than loyal J flyer, of which their must be some, the IBFT does not matter one hoot. That flyer will fly with the airline that offers the cheapest J class seat. So if VS have worked out the IBFT is not attracting new customers but price is then maybe its worth it.

The question of course is, are there enough flyers who are willing to pay more in order to keep the service and help VS still make a profit?

I am not sure if I agree with the OP on a.net but I would be interested to see how many J class flyers on VS are frequent flyers versus those who shop around for a good deal.

After all surely the IBFT if it does go will just become like the flowers in J, the decent pillows in J, the Baileys run in Y and so on, a long and distant memory for the loyal flyer but importantly the VS product will still entice newbies.

On the points about not enough crew to provide a good service - Two christmas's ago we flew back from MIA and where told that they only had the legal minimum number of staff onboard due to no shows etc. We were dreading the flight, but have to say it was the best service we had received for a number of years!

of course i post in jest!!!

I know that 'working class' sup
oops sorry ... drink more than upperclass
how very dare you suggest otherwise
[8D]
Scarlet x

I got my letter from SRB today and it's simply crap. One of the Bumbles is capitalised, the other is not -- are they not both lower case, per brand standards? -- and the man uses the word 'really' twice. Really.

Poorly written junk. They should hire me to do that stuff and it would come out QUALITY.

GJ

I suspect the IFBT offering doesn't play especially well when negoatiating corporate deals, that will have been a key factor.

Hope no-one gets made redundant as a result.

Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
I got my letter from SRB today and it's simply crap. One of the Bumbles is capitalised, the other is not -- are they not both lower case, per brand standards? -- and the man uses the word 'really' twice. Really.

Poorly written junk. They should hire me to do that stuff and it would come out QUALITY.

GJ

]]

I would hire you GP - if nothing else it would be in Paul Smaith embossed and stripped note paper [:X]