Is the UC Bar up for the chop?

You should never be told to go back to your seat, unless the seatbelt sign is on. You're welcome at my bar anytime lol!
The galley at the front of the 346 has a glass cart, a china cart, the IFE cart (with DVD players etc), the upper class headset boxes, two juice boxes and the flight crews food. There's nowhere else to put all of that, we're so limited for space, so afraid that galley needs to stay.
Will be interesting to see what replaces the IFBT area on the 343 and 346, either a toilet, another wardrobe or more suites. Hmmn I wonder which one VS will opt for????

I remember when the bar used to have different snacks and things too, and its welcoming flowers. Now, it's a dim, often unpeopled area, often with nothing there. I was told to go back to my seat when I went to the bar in a recent flight too (the seatbelt sign was off) and was told 'although they market this as a bar, it's really an open-plan galley' and that if people remained there whilst it was being used as such, it would delay service. I was also told that the Freedom concept had been officially removed from the menu. If UC clients ask for food out of the normal schedule, it is up to the crew concerned to deal with that request, 'time and resources permitting'.

It is sad how all the little touches are going, or gone. Virgin might feel the need to tighten its belt, but I suggest they do not do it by turning themselves even more mediocre: after all, the Open Skies will soon be the limit, and if they don't work hard to retain the loyalty of their highest-paying fliers, others will surely woo those fliers..

Oh my god I cant believe the crew said that to you! It really makes me cringe when I hear the way some crew speak to pax and the things they've said to them.
You've paid thousands of pounds for your ticket, you're entitled to use the bar any time the seatbelt sign isn't on.
Sadly the only way to address this is for pax to report the crew-members concerned. It is totally unacceptable to have told you that.
As an FSM I try to ensure all my crew are delivering excellent service and I lead by example, but I'm afraid I know from experience that not all FSMs can be bothered and this attitude filters down to all the crew on that flight. There's no easy answer I'm afraid. As many members have already commented, there is a lack of consistency, and as the FSMs only fly with their direct manager once or twice a year, there's no-one to pull them up if they're not doing a good job.

virginboy747, they didn't say it in a nasty or confrontational way: it was more said in sorrow, as if things were decaying around them and they could barely offer the service they did, let alone the service promised by the marketers. To be honest, they didn't really need to tell me this - on recent flights, the bar has tended to have plates, clingfilm, paperwork, cartons, packets and so on there for much of the time. It's not exactly been a welcoming refuge Their description of it as an 'open plan galley' is probably fair enough.

As for FSMs: rarely in my flights have I ever seen one, let alone had an introduction from one. And I'm Auratus now, so I was curious whether it would begin, but no, they're equal-opportunity ignorers no matter your metal What is it that makes an FSM jaded or lazy? Is it that they have reached a ceiling, and cannot progress further? Is it like a kind of anticlimax? Is it that the service cuts and shift patterns have turned the role to hell over the years? And what is it that makes Virgin utterly unable to apply even simple consistency checks? I'm not asking this with some raging anger or anything, just curiosity - if Virgin continues to deteriorate, I'll simply go elsewhere, it's no big drama; they're not my family or my religion - just a company whose product I happened to like.

Virgin are supposedly 'reprioritising' their products & services to reflect those valued by their UC customers.
The UC review is looking to 'strip' the complexity out of the product.
Managementspeak for cuts in service.

We have seen a number of cuts - including the IFBT 'review'. As customers, where do we draw the line?
If the Bar goes, how long before they review the dedicated senior staff?

The Clubhouse seems secure - but still is not available on all routes. Even things without cost implications are missing - priority boarding & disembark. The idea that remote stands can be used at MAN suggests that VS are considering UC on that route to be nothing more than a UCS and a purple card.

My own feeling is that they have already stripped UC below the minimum.
We need to see the 'review' provide improvement not constant deterioration if we are to continue to pay UC fares to VS.
A clear message must be given from both UC pax and CC that they are crossing the line.

Bearing in mind all that's happening, I'm curious to hear from Richard Mannion, who was allowed to hear senior management's point of view some months ago, and was won over. Richard, what with the rumours flying about, some of which are now substantiated, how much longer will you, and should we, give them the benefit of the doubt?

[mcmbenjamin]

I think if the bar goes VS will have lost its spunk. VS will be like every other airline onboard at that point. And that is more than likely not a bad thing from VS' (Decker: Is that proper?) viewpoint. Higher fares and corp contracts are concerned about getting folks from A to B as quickly and cheaply as possible. VS does now offer that to some degree with the new UC Wing but not to the degree of Porter Airlines, EOS or SilverJet; all with private terminals in their bases.

Originally posted by mcmbenjamin
VS does now offer that to some degree with the new UC Wing but not to the degree of Porter Airlines, EOS or SilverJet; all with private terminals in their bases.

But I think you'll find there's (a) still resistance to schlepping north out to Stansted (EOS) or Luton (Silverjet) and having to share at least some terminal time, no matter how limited, with we great LCC unwashed [;)] and (b) the EOS and Silverjet routes and timetables don't allow much flexibility.

That said, the distinctive features that VS used to market itself with do seem to be on the way out. And all before I can get my first UCS experience - oh well, worse things happen at sea.

There's an interesting comment on what people respond to in terms of brand and marketing in Sunday's Observer where the David Campbell, CEO of O2, who used to work for VS, remarks that 'At Virgin Atlantic they'd do consumer surveys and time and time again the thing people responded to wasn't cleanliness or punctuality,' he says. 'It was the free ice cream halfway through the flight.'

Paul

Originally posted by mcmbenjamin
I think if the bar goes VS will have lost its spunk.

I couldn't but it better myself! I fail to understand how Virgin with a strong hard product continue to undermine their soft service product in the face of renewed efforts from fellow british competitors. BA, bmi have both got something to add. BA with Club Kitchen, much better meals, amenity kits - bmi with onboard chefs! What have VS got to offer now everyone's got flatbeds, lounges etc...

I remember 'club Orlando' from Manchester, it was the Upper Class seat with premium economy service, the upgrade cost was exactly the same as a cheap 'Z' fare ( you wern't allowed to use the bar ).

Personally I think that is where Virgin are going, a bigger seat and thats it, if your travelling from Heathrow they will spoil you in the clubhouse because you might be a corporate pax but otherwise your paying to put your feet up on the flight and not much more in what looks more like a scribbled on train/bus with dirty stinky toilets, much like our trains are like at home. We are not many steps away from the crew being minimum waged east europeans that can't speak English if this erosion carries on rather like the Hilton.

It seems to me and always shocks me that VA management seem to have complete contempt for their own passengers and yet expect the people working front of house to give top notch service and respect for less and less renumeration.

Originally posted by easygoingeezer
like a scribbled on train/bus with dirty stinky toilets

Well, they've already got the on-board toilets right. Just a bit of scribbling and they're there.

H

The Upper Class bar is NOT going.

This is from a pukka source.

Originally posted by crewrest
The Upper Class bar is NOT going.

This is from a pukka source.

Well, that's good and bad. Good that they'll remain on board apparently, but bad as I was hoping to pick one up off ebay and install it in my living room as a lasting momento.

H

Originally posted by crewrest
The Upper Class bar is NOT going.

This is from a pukka source.

Well that makes sense. After all taking out of the 346 will not have any advantage. VS cant put exta suites in as the plane currently operates at the maximum weight it can whilst ensuring it can get off the ground.

[RichardMannion]

Originally posted by Howard Long

Originally posted by crewrest
The Upper Class bar is NOT going.

This is from a pukka source.

Well, that's good and bad. Good that they'll remain on board apparently, but bad as I was hoping to pick one up off ebay and install it in my living room as a lasting momento.

H

Howard, they auctioned one of the older ones on eBay about 2 years ago, fetched a pretty penny if I remember.

Does the crew member serving the drinks (with an ever ending supply of crisps) come with it - it won't have the same appeal if you are on the wrong side?

[HighFlyer]

Never ending supply of crisps? Not seen that onboard for quite a while [:D]

Thanks,
Sarah

Originally posted by HighFlyer
Never ending supply of crisps? Not seen that onboard for quite a while [:D]

Thanks,
Sarah

So true, but why not, you could even give out amenity packs and have an IFBT offering treatments?[:w]

Well that makes sense. After all taking out of the 346 will not have any advantage. VS cant put exta suites in as the plane currently operates at the maximum weight it can whilst ensuring it can get off the ground.

Not quite true willd; the -600 is rated on paper at 368tonnes (the last one, VBUG IIRC is a touch heavier) as a paperwork exercise, the aircraft is operated by VS to 368T and no higher (and goes well at that weight, as you'll have noted ex HKG etc) you'll find 400tonnes is the top figure in the theoretical take off performace calculations, it's similar weights for the -400, but to rate the a/c at such weights would cost much more money in landing and airways
charges. The -400 was uprated to a heavier weight a few years back when it operated HKG.

You point may refer to the forward CoG issues with the -600 which have eased recently, but still remain. It strikes me that there is little point in removing the Beauty Therapist station and not replacing it with a J suite or 2, which probably wouldn't add too much more mass compared to the revenue generated.

The bar is not going to be removed, and if you want more crisps, just ask. If the bog is not immaculate, please tell the lady/gent in the black shirt, they know it should be spotless.

I think both myself and Willd refer to the letter sent to airlines by Airbus warning about droopy nose syndrome.

[Scrooge]

Originally posted by crewrest
[
and if you want more crisps, just ask.

Right..... along with Bento boxes...little red pillows, hot water bottles..the list goes on...

But back on topic...good to hear the bar is staying.

Was in a management meeting yesterday and can confirm that the bar is staying, the J CSS is staying also. The IFBT areas will shortly be removed, but no immediate plans to replace them with seats. More IFBts will be deployed in the cubhouse to ensure more pax get the chance to have a treatment on the ground. The LGW a/c will def be getting V-Port next year when they go in for their refits and will then be stayng with the fleet until around 2015/16. More smaller a/c, either A340s or A330s will be sourced for LGW to expand the leisure routes as from 2010 and as an interim measure until the 787s are eventually delivered. Only new route mentioned was the Maldives, perhaps from 2010, certainly no new routes expected next year while we consolidate what we have.

Originally posted by crewrest
The bar is not going to be removed, and if you want more crisps, just ask. If the bog is not immaculate, please tell the lady/gent in the black shirt, they know it should be spotless.

That would entirely depend on whether crisps, champagne or indeed any thing else had been loaded in adequate quantities in the first place [n].

virginboy747 - your post contains quite a lot of interesting information, are you sure you can post it??????

Yep there's nothing there that they didn't want to be general knowledge. Haven't put all the financial stuff etc.

A very informative post Virginboy!

So by the end of 2009 VS should have a totally common on board product at LHR/LGW/MAN/GLA (save for differences in seat configs) this should really boost the airline and remove the complaints about inconsistencies.

I always thought the 787 order was to replace the A343's already at LHR, and increase the fleet from there rather than supplementing the LGW 747's.

Perhaps in the future (around 2016) we'll see an A380/A346/787 mixed fleet at all airports?