Whats is the Point of Flying Club Points

I need a grumble and some advice.

I have been spending whenever possible on the VA AMEX and want to fly to Sydney again buying one UC and one on an upgrade with points. (I did it 2 years ago with ease)
But it seems that these points are now worthless to me because 'that is a popular route' so there are no reward seats other than those having an overnight sit in Honk Kong making a 38hour trip. No way.

I know Virgin are not running a charity but just one upgradeable seat on each flight would be nice. There are seats for miles plus money but because I want to pay for economy and upgrade to UC or at least PE (sounds like miles plus money to me) these seats are not available.

I am advised to phone each day or keep checking the website to see if a seat is available but its un-likely and I spent 5 hours trying all combinations of dates from March to May 2009.

Does anyone know how to get a upgraded with points seat to Australia next year, or at least an easy way to look out for one other than inputting 45 combinations of dates on the website each day?

Or has flying club become no use at all for flights other than to New York which I was told I could book easily?

I am no expert but many on here are.

I believe that in order to bag the seat that you so desperately want that you have to be quick of the mark. Basically involves phoning up FC on the day the seat is released.

Of course with increasing pressures on airlines we could find ourselves in a situation where even reward seats are decreased in number. This is currently what a lot of US carriers are attempting to do.

As a side note, one would imagine that the LHR-HKG part of the service will become easier to get a reward seat on as there will be a 2nd daily flight by the end of the year.

Well looks like VA want you to use their credit card, to fool you into collecting all those lovely miles for something you cannot actually use.

One way loyalty me thinks!

Originally posted by mark my words
Well looks like VA want you to use their credit card, to fool you into collecting all those lovely miles for something you cannot actually use.

To be fair to VA earlier this year a good number of reward seats were available even on routes that traditionally do not yield many miles spending opportunities - e.g. LHR to LAX and LHR to SFO.

Paul

I managed to get UC back from SFO on the Sunday evening before the 2nd bank holiday in Monday which I'm sure is a pretty busy time. Booked it about a month before.

I guess the problem with the Sydney route is that you need availability on 4 flights not just 2.

I used to have a problem booking for Sydney, but with the new VS238/239 service LHR-HKG, the problem is solved!

Yes, you have to do an overnight in Hong Kong on the way back but that's due to the timing of the VS201 getting in Hong Kong on the return - the VS239 on the same day left Hong Kong for London about 5 hours previously!

Putting in some dates comes up with:

10th March VS238
11th March VS200

23rd March VS201
24th March VS239

From what I can see, there's huge availability in March except for Saturday & Sunday departures and Friday 27th.

The best way is to check out LHR-HKG and to adjust the dates so you get a non-available date - this gets the flight calendar displayed - note the days and then check HKG-SYD for the same days (+1 on way out). You also need to check which HKG-LHR flight availability appears, for the reason I gave above.

Then just phone FC with the dates.

I've now booked a UC reward flight for end of January - supposedly a busy time but was pretty wide open in terms of dates. The overnight in Hong Kong is required for my dates but I think you'll find that with BA the same is true. I'm happy to see Hong Kong though.

It can be worked.

David.

The problem seems to be reward availability with PE seats which you need to move from to Economy to PE to UC . I've tried permetations for a straight G return to SYD reasonably successfully between those dates (and for 2 seats).Admittedly a stopover on the way back has been indicated but no great hardship really (better than stopping off on the way out).

[Nottingham Nick]

Chris

Sorry to sound harsh, but I think it is a bit off to post a thread questioning the whole point of an airline loyalty programme the first time you can't redeem the points for exactly the flights you want. Especially as the points have been acquired by using a credit card rather than flying with the airline.

You have said that you accept Virgin are not running a charity, and you realise that the SYD route is very popular, so reward seats for infrequent fliers will be at a premium.

As others have advised, it is possible to get reward seats on popular routes at busy times of the year, but you have to be flexible and plan ahead. Try and book the seats as soon as they are released, if you don't get the first dates you want, you have to keep trying. I also think it is better to ring the Flying Club rather than do it on line. If you get a good agent, they will be able to advise tactics for getting the seats you want. If you get an unhelpful agent, hang up and try again.


Nick

I tried to upgrade my son with miles from Economy to PE flying to Sydney earlier this year, but like you I was told there were no seats. However, I had no problems at all arranging it at the airport (I was flying UC on the same flight) and again on the way home.

I think the route and loads must have a lot to do with it. We had no problem booking 3 PE Reward seats for our trip in October to New York. Are the loads quite high to Sydney? If they are then it wouldn't surprise me if VS reduced the number of 'free' seats available in favour of revenue generating passengers.

Miopyk[8D]

Originally posted by miopyk
I think the route and loads must have a lot to do with it. We had no problem booking 3 PE Reward seats for our trip in October to New York. Are the loads quite high to Sydney? If they are then it wouldn't surprise me if VS reduced the number of 'free' seats available in favour of revenue generating passengers.

ISTBC but I believe the problem with SYD, as myself and others mentioned earlier, is that you need to get availability on four flights not two.

Originally when VS started LHR-HKG-SYD there was a large amount of concern that VS would loose customers to other carriers on LHR-HKG as VS would have twice the demand for the seats with no increase in available seats. Clearly the 2nd daily HKG service gets round these problems. IIRC HKG-SYD, despite a slow start, is a very popular route, often without a lot of HKG/SYD people not going onward to LHR.

Chris - you say you are buying one UC ticket and one in Y or PE with an upgrade? I assume you do not have enough miles for a pure mileage flight all the way?

If you can find dates where there is pure G (all miles for UC) availability, and others seem to say there are some, try ringing Flying Club and asking them if they will talk to the revenue department and let you book in Y or PE then upgrade and effectively remove the one G from the availability. Other than that, there's been some good other advice in the replies.

I do however think this statement

Code: Select allBut it seems that these points are now worthless to me

is a bit much - so you can get the upgraded flight on miles when you want but you have to have a stopover in HKG and there might be other options that will achieve your goal ... well you never get anything for nothing do you?

Chris - I too tried to get a UC flight to SYD for September 08 back in December 07 and came up with the same issues in terms of availability on full points fare.

Its not VA's fault if the route is a popular one, and the solution with a stopover is a fair one. HKG is a great city and I for one, if i could would have done the stopover.

In the end because of the circumstances I had i.e. I needed to get to Sydney for a certain date and could only take 3 weeks holiday I gave FC a call. Whilst they couldn't help me with a free seat, they did get me an excellent fare in UC and threw in the limo transfer one way (and after all the websearch for the VA fare they were cheaper directly).

I also would like to defend VA, I have had many an opportunity to use my miles on routes such as SFO, JFK, MIA and ORD - but as everyone says in the threads VA is a commercial operation. When I spoke to the FC team they advised me that they often find the SYD route only has 1 - 2 seats given to miles - so if someone uses the seat to HKG technically its gone, so I am led to believe by my friends who work for the airline. (yes even they tried to help me find a seat!!)

If you have used the VA Amex card to rack up the miles, in theory you might have a companion ticket as well - have you called MBNA to check? If so then that could be the next option....

Good luck in getting some kind of solution - the guys above have offered sound advice - and they have been really good in helping me with lots of questions (thanks guys you know who you are!)

And btw if you cant use your points for the flight - have you gone and seen what you can use them for with their partners.... all is not lost, and far from being worthless IMHO.

Baloo

Thanks for the replies and help. I will look into my options.
Those that think I am a bit off complaining because I earned the points on a card not flying, I do fly too. Although it should not make any difference its a reward scheme after all. It is unfortunately not the first time I have had problems.

Planning ahead doesn't seems to help, I asked today about a seat for 25th May 2009 so that would have been released today and was told sorry only the 38 hour trip route. I know I am an infrequent flyer compared with many, I am only a silver member, but I have to save for a long time to go on holiday to Oz.

Many people could do a 28 hour trip out and 38 hours back but unfortunately I can't.

No matter what others think, I think Virgin Flying club is now more for those who want to fly to the USA.

Thanks for everyones time.

[honey lamb]

No matter what others think, I think Virgin Flying club is now more for those who want to fly to the USA.

That is a sweeping statement backed up by no more evidence than the fact that you failed to get the route you wanted on the dates you wanted to SYD. There is clear evidence on this board of a group of at least five V-Flyers getting reward seats to Tokyo last year on the same flight and again this year to Shanghai. I also managed to get reward seats to Dubai. When I last looked none of these destinations were in the USA. On the other hand reward tickets to places like Orlando and Las Vegas are like gold dust and on occasion I have had difficulty in getting reward seats to JFK in spite of all the flights going there.

Reward flight availability is governed by the rules of supply and demand and if airlines can fill the seats with paying passengers it stands to reason they will. The LHR-SYD route is very busy with many of the reward fare snapped up on the HKG leg which then impacts on rewards to SYD. The second HKG flight is opening up extra seats as others have said but equally one has to be prepared to be flexible.

A final though from me.
Other people booking the flights they want to other destinations is no help to the way I feel about not being able to get the flights I want. Even being flexible on dates. I can not do the 38 hours trip so flexible on that is not an option. If the reward scheme doesn't provide me with what I need then its no longer for me but I accept many find it of value.
Still, we can agree to differ.
Good luck everyone.

Your subject was 'what is the point in flying club points' and you got an answer to that - many people gave examples of their success.

It is not just Virgin that is like this - I couldn't get BA seats to Buenos Aires for next January in any class other than on the occasional Wed/Thurs which doesn't work for me despite looking frequently on the day the seats would have been released (and regularly subsequently).

Have you looked into using your miles to get to LA and then connect on to Air New Zealand?

Originally posted by chrisinessex
A final though from me.
Other people booking the flights they want to other destinations is no help to the way I feel about not being able to get the flights I want. Even being flexible on dates. I can not do the 38 hours trip so flexible on that is not an option. If the reward scheme doesn't provide me with what I need then its no longer for me but I accept many find it of value.
Still, we can agree to differ.
Good luck everyone.

Chris,

As I said in my post, attempting the same thing with BA will illicit the same response with regards to stopovers on this route. Flying Club is no more restrictive than the BA Executive Club on this route.

The new VS238/239 has doubled capacity on a route that was previously simply impossible to get reward seats on without booking as soon as the date was available to be booked. The timing of the new flight back from Hong Kong does mean that you can't connect from the VS200, requiring a stopover.

I simply don't accept the argument that Flying Club are being unreasonable on this route by requiring a stopover. I was looking at Singapore Airlines also on this route and a stopover was also required.

David.

If you had a stop over in Hong Kong for 1 night - would you recommend just staying at an airport hotel, or would you have a reasonable amount time to have a look around HK?

To me you have to take the rough with the smooth with regards to any Frequent Flyer programme.

Sometimes the system works for you and you can get some great reward seats. Other times it is not so. Quite often you have to work with whats available, last year I took a reward flight from MAN rather than LGW as there was no availability ex LGW for example. Surely a 36 hour layover in HKG is no bad thing. It is common practice and makes sense IMHO.

Many have shown on here that with careful planning you can really get reward seats to popular destinations.

The airline has to make a profit, heck we would all love reward seats but it doesn't work like that.

Originally posted by willd
To me you have to take the rough with the smooth with regards to any Frequent Flyer programme.

Sometimes the system works for you and you can get some great reward seats. Other times it is not so. Quite often you have to work with whats available, last year I took a reward flight from MAN rather than LGW as there was no availability ex LGW for example. Surely a 36 hour layover in HKG is no bad thing. It is common practice and makes sense IMHO.

Many have shown on here that with careful planning you can really get reward seats to popular destinations.

The airline has to make a profit, heck we would all love reward seats but it doesn't work like that.

This is how I feel and it sums it up perfectly.

Well the flight is near on 24hrs, I would always reccommend a stopover where possible. HK is an amazing city and after a 12hr flight it is nice to stretch your legs and rest in a proper bed before heading down under. [y]

Dominic

To the OP
I'd also add that if you had investigated properly (given what you wanted to use the miles for) you would've been better off getting a BMI mastercard/Amex. Their miles & cash redemptions are a winner and given that you can redeem on *A that would've given you more options for the route you want.
You actually started collecting points for a relatively small airline.

Originally posted by mark my words
If you had a stop over in Hong Kong for 1 night - would you recommend just staying at an airport hotel, or would you have a reasonable amount time to have a look around HK?

If you get the VS201 into HKG from SYD you arrive at 22.05. If you're booked HKG-LHR on the VS239 then the next time you can leave is the next day at 14.15. In that circumstance an airport hotel is probably the right move considering the amount of time.

In my case I'm arriving into HKG on 13th Feb and leaving on the 15th, giving 2 nights. I'm intending to stay somewhere central to get feel of Hong Kong etc.

David.

Chris,

I will give you an example of the reason for collecting flying club points.

2x upper class tickets to Sydney in March next year. OK, I have to overnight in Hong Kong on the way back and spend 3 night there on the way out instead of the 2 I would ideally have chosen. This is a small price to pay for the saving of approx £7k after I have paid the £1k surcharges(saving another £250 booking the HKG-SYD online and paying in HK dollars). Only problem my flying club account is 320000 miles lighter! Oh, I forgot these points have not cost me a penny above what I would normally have spent on travel etc. You might have to be 'brand loyal' but this is not really a problem with Virgin.

Be flexible and sit at the front of the plane with a very smug smile.

Mark.
ps Any idea on where to visit in HK and Sydney