inconsistency, again

[Scrooge]

Originally posted by frangipan
Maybe they should just classify the bar as staff-only

Maybe they should just classify the bar as out of bounds to staff ?

It's a touchy subject for sure, but the actions of the few could well affect the many.

Originally posted by Scrooge
[Maybe they should just classify the bar as out of bounds to staff ?

It's a touchy subject for sure, but the actions of the few could well affect the many.

This seems perfectly acceptable and logical to me. It's a facility for which UC passengers are paying handsomely and it should be reserved for them.

If policy was clear that staff flying non-revenue could not use the bar, it would be easier for FSMs to police. It should also be policy that on-duty staff don't congregate at the bar either - if they want a chat, find somewhere 'backstage' rather than 'front of house'.

There are other organisations where staff are expected to act as representatives of their company even if they are off duty and out of uniform, especially when it is obvious to customers that they are employees. Why can Virgin not adopt this simple policy too?

Originally posted by wraf137

Originally posted by Scrooge
[Maybe they should just classify the bar as out of bounds to staff ?

It's a touchy subject for sure, but the actions of the few could well affect the many.

This seems perfectly acceptable and logical to me. It's a facility for which UC passengers are paying handsomely and it should be reserved for them.

Ditto the above comments surely that has to be the answer, no employees at the bar makes perfect sense.

cheers
alex

alex, in theory, that sounds sensible. But I imagine you'll have many staff or crew become quite angry if this became a blanket regulation. After all, many of them claim that the only reason they work for VS is the various specific perks etc, and they'll see this as an attack on those perks, don't you think?

Plus, let's be honest, the regulation would be ineffective. How do I know? At the moment, there's a regulation about the time staff are allowed to hang around the bar, and we now know that this is flouted fairly regularly. What makes you think that an absolute ban would not be flouted with just the same impunity?

Again, the problem is that without proper oversight, you can chuck as many theoretical regulations at the problem as you wish. They'll all be equally ineffective.

I would hope that VS staff were not barred from the bar!
It actually can be a good opportunity to chat to VS staff - and I believe the more interaction between staff & pax the better.

Why should the inappropriate actions of a few cause action against the many VS staff who do not abuse the system?
I believe the responsibility is clearly with the FSM - the vast majority are excellent - but I am sure that those who do the job properly are even more annoyed with those that fail than we are.

[HighFlyer]

I agree with Bill. I have no issue with staff using the bar on a flight and also welcome the opportunity to chat to off duty crew. Its the FSM that should be ensuring that travelling staff do not monopolise the bar and ruin the experience for paying passengers and well behaved crew alike.

Thanks,
Sarah

I'm going to get flamed for this, but here goes:

This is a pointless thread. Why? Because it merely repeats (and repeats and repeats) the same old complaints that have already been raised, time and again, about service levels, crew as pax, FSM needs to set the tone, blah blah blah. No new information has been shared here -- no new insights, no new solutions.

Write a letter of complaint and be done with it.

BTW, do they wash ninja suits?

GJ

I won't flame you, GrinningJackanapes, and I kind of agree with your tacit frustration at the pointlessness of it. The one thing I'm trying to do though is to understand *why* these things never seem to change, no matter how many times people complain. In a sense, that was my point: what is it about this company which, ostensibly you'd think would be one of the most customer-focussed, attentive, with-it organisations, which, in fact, is stultifyingly unable to respond to specific easily-dealt with issues: like loading a few more packets of crisps, ensuring your premium passengers get to board away from the scrum and so on. And yet, I can search and find the same problems happen again and again, and have been, for around two years. *That* inability to change is what I find interesting.

Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
BTW, do they wash ninja suits?

ALL of them EXCEPT the ones they give to you.

Originally posted by frangipan
I won't flame you, GrinningJackanapes, and I kind of agree with your tacit frustration at the pointlessness of it. The one thing I'm trying to do though is to understand *why* these things never seem to change, no matter how many times people complain. In a sense, that was my point: what is it about this company which, ostensibly you'd think would be one of the most customer-focussed, attentive, with-it organisations, which, in fact, is stultifyingly unable to respond to specific easily-dealt with issues: like loading a few more packets of crisps, ensuring your premium passengers get to board away from the scrum and so on. And yet, I can search and find the same problems happen again and again, and have been, for around two years. *That* inability to change is what I find interesting.

Every single one of your frustrations has been, at one time or another, my frustration. Only add a bottle of Champagne opened onto your Paul Smith ensemble for a really perfect experience...

So, dear frangipan, we are partners in sorrows. I do not discount the concerns you express, nor the burden they put upon you as regards the simple interrogatory you offer up to Virgin Atlantic: 'why?'

Nonetheless, this thread is devolving into a sustained moan, rivaled only perhaps by those enounced by ghosts in certain country piles. This is not your fault. It is merely a syndrome of the online environment.

What I would like to see here, instead of an aimless shamble of criticisms, is a narrative of your writing to VS about your experience and their resulting response. Should this response be satisfactory or, say it's not so, unsatisfactory -- that would be elucidatory.

And, might I add, if the worst comes to pass and you're fobbed off, we can always deploy the Doomsday Machine...yes, I speak of that fearsome word: Mannion.

GJ

[Neil]

Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
This is a pointless thread.

A pointless thread? How fabulous [;)][:w]

Now back OT. I would just like to make one point to the OP. They say that they are not sure if they could be bothered to write to VS because they think that nothing will probably be done about it.

Surely it is better to write to VS where there is a chance that something might happen rather than say on here where there is absolutely no chance of VS knowing about or acting on it? Of course I am not saying they shouldn't post on here, and I am glad they did, but they have obviously taken time and effort to create this thread on here when the more beneficial response would have come from writing to VS.

Neil

Originally posted by slinky09

Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
BTW, do they wash ninja suits?

ALL of them EXCEPT the ones they give to you.

[:(]

GJ

Hello everyone,

It's been a long while since I last posted and this thread quickly caught my attention.
As crew for VS, I can assure you that we all receive the same training, which as mentioned before, features heavily on service. It goes without saying that the vast majority of our training is factored around the safety and AvMed aspects of our job role.
However, unfortunately, some of you have clearly experienced flights where this does not seem to be the case. I can only reiterate what has been said by a fellow colleague previously. There are a few people and from my experience, flying 6-7 times a month, (something which I am sure many of you do more times than myself!) it is a few that do not seem to remember why they wanted/were selected for the job in the first place. Please, do not think for a moment that I am trying to make any excuses for crew's lack of attention to service and in some cases, rudeness(!!) towards any passenger. Whether you are travelling in Y, W or J, the level of service provided should not differ. Naturally, what you are offering and the nature of your services need to be altered accordingly depending on many factors, ie. flight time, number of services offered and of course cabin that you are working in.
BUT, the level of service should never change and I wholeheartedly agree that you SHOULD be able to get onboard any Virgin flight, whether it be day or night, ex LHR or ex outstation, in Upper or not and receive consistent, high levels of service.

Something that is mentioned frequently, is staff using the UC bar.
This is probably my biggest gripe of them all.
It is not a rule within VS that staff travelling must not use the bar, HOWEVER it is a known fact that any time spent there is minimal for the very reason that there are full revenue passengers that have paid alot of money for that priveledge and if seats are taken up by crew (in uniform or not) gathered around the bar, naturally there is no room for the very people that have paid for this service.
I do not believe that there is any excuse for this. If you are lucky enough to be upgraded to J (some of us are entitled to it, others are not) then you really should be keeping a low profile and not making any obvious reference to the fact that you are staff travelling whether that be on holiday, for work or any other reason.

With many of our trip patterns changing, it is becoming ever more frequent for entire crew complements to be travelling to an outstation (or back to LHR/LGW/MAN) to either get home after working out, or go out to work home.
Indeed, my partner (also crew for VS) passengered out in J this evening to EWR to bring the VS2 home as a crew member has been taken ill downroute.
Where space is available, crew will be seated in J (space available naturally) when it is operationally neccessary for them to be sent for work purposes.
This is what I believe to have happened in the example given by the OP. A whole crew were paxing home and should never have even been at the bar and any crew member that disagrees with me should think how they would feel if roles were reversed.

To sum up (and apologies if I have sent you all to sleep), I do believe that the parties concerned should always write into VS, whether that be to praise or complain. I genuinely hope you receive a decent reply at the minimum for your trouble and all efforts should be made to encourage you to return to us, so that we can show you what a Virgin flight should be like.

I have said it before and I will say it again; I am extremely proud to work for Virgin. I left a very well paid job at (ahem!) BA to come here and wouldn't wish to work anywhere else for a minute, however, please please take up any concerns that you have onboard with the FSM. Their job is to manage all aspects of the flight. I would love to say I hope you never have to but if the situation should arise, please at the very least do write in at the earliest convinience.

I truly hope to see you onboard again soon. If you are travelling in our lovely UC cabin then you may not see me (I don't have my senior's badge just yet!) but I know that many, if not all of the crew would agree with what has been said and give you the best service that I am confident we are capable of.

Take care, happy flying everyone!

GV-GAV

[buns]

Well Said[y]

Let us all not dwell toom much on the negative experience recounted by the OP, but remember that many of us still enjoy travelling with VS, irrespective of cabin, because of the way the crew go out of thier way to make the journey enjoyable.

buns

Thanks for taking the time to put accross a fine case, when i (we) hear it like that it certainly puts the OP back into perspective, like its been said before there will always be a few who will never care.
Thank you and i sure as well hope im on your plane(VS017 31oct) please!!!

cheers
alex[:D]

Thanks av_norw792 but I am afraid you will miss me by 2 hours, I would love to be on the VS17 but I will be spending Halloween en route to Delhi!

Maybe one day soon!

Cheers

Gav

Originally posted by Scrooge

Originally posted by frangipan
Maybe they should just classify the bar as staff-only

Maybe they should just classify the bar as out of bounds to staff ?

It's a touchy subject for sure, but the actions of the few could well affect the many.

Take out the bar completely. That would allow for more seats, more income, and less whingers like us complaining about staffers using it. Better tell the bean counters now, so the bar can go the same way as the cushions, flowers, IFBT, and oh, and just for GJ, did someone say amenity kits?

H

Originally posted by Howard Long
[and just for GJ, did someone say amenity kits?

YES THEY DID...


AMENITY KIT! AMENITY KIT! MY KINGDOM FOR AN AMENITY KIT!

GJ

[Scrooge]

Maybe someone can answer this for me.

Does VS (or any other airline for that matter) employee people to take flights and evaluate the crews etc ?

If not....how do I get the job ?

[Darren Wheeler]

You have to go to Fairbanks, Alaska for it.

That's where the end of the queue is. [:)]

Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
You have to go to Fairbanks, Alaska for it.

That's where the end of the queue is. [:)]

And you can see Russia from there!

GJ

Frangipan - I find it quite comforting to find that this sort of thing happens and is nothing personal. I can identify with your brother's experience. Of course this doesn't happen on other airlines due to lack of no bar, but I have experienced staff being given meal preferences on other airlines over and above paying passengers. No one wants to pay 2k plus for an airline seat only to find that someone not paying anything (or much) is having all the goodies (the bar, first meal choice, extra champers etc..)

My personal experience when complaining to VS customer services (about a different type of matter) has confirmed to me that it's not worth the bother, however, I have not tried it recently as I have not had cause. In your case it may be worthwhile, and in the current climate I would say give it a go. You always have a choice and I doubt you would bother with the gift of VS UC for a loved one again, unless of course they make it up to you. I say give them the chance. At this difficult time for airlines the customer service departments really ought to be springing in to action in order not to lose future custom.

I don't want to go on (I will though), but I have my particular favourite hotel chain (as do many), and sometimes they mess up. In fact they mess up quite a lot, but they always appear genuinely sorry and will do something that makes me feel better about the whole thing, perhaps a complimentary meal or a bottle of wine to the room. Whatever it is and no matter how small, the fact that they bother keeps me going back.

You might find that in these times you get a similar reaction from VS.

[Decker]

SNL - LOVE it

Flew LAX route this week, server overall was just acceptable but really not that great.

However outbound I was sat next to 2 crew friends/family and they got a great deal of attention throughout the flight.

On the return what appeared to be an off duty crew member (who sitting in PE or at least not UC) sat at the bar for several hours at the start of the flight talking very loudly and also wandered up and down UC from time to time to chat to the on duty crew.

There was of course the louder chattering and moaning about whatever during take off and landing.

Pretty much normal these day which is sad

Despite my aspirations, my bank balance will not allow UC travel. But, with what is such an emotive subject, why do AUs and UC regulars put up with this state of affairs? Surely a quiet word to the FSM would solve the problem [:)]