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#456057 by slinky09
02 Oct 2008, 20:46
Originally posted by upsidedown19
Arrival times are i different matter and can be affected by all sorts of issues but at least with an OTD of 90% VS or BA for that matter couls say that they are doing there best.


I think that its departure times that have more variables than arrival times. After all, once all the pax, luggage, cargo are on board, the plane has taxied and taken off, there are fewer significat variables.

There have been a number of threads here about departure times, the consensus has been that arrival is more important, especially where you are connecting. I'd be interested to know of any airline with more than 90% OTD by the way? Looking at RITA you'd be hard pressed to find a major airline with an OTD percent above 80.
#456061 by upsidedown19
02 Oct 2008, 21:07
Slinky

I cant find any airline that can get 90% OTD. A delay of less than 15 mins is counted as an OTD which i think is fair enough. I cetainly would not moan about a 15min delay.

For the YTD OTD for some majors are:-

BMI = 88%
Ryanair = 77% (surprised?)
EasyJet = 72%
LuftHa = 72%
Alitalia = 66%
Air France = 65%
AA = 66%
BA = 60%
VS = 53%
Emirates = 46%

One again these were all within 15 mins of schedule. Some interesting results there i thought.
It goes to show that many of the biggies of poor to say the least but the fact that there are so many does not make it some thing to be proud of.
#456072 by slinky09
02 Oct 2008, 23:01
Ergo you admit that no major airline has reasonable scheduling?
#456074 by honey lamb
02 Oct 2008, 23:09
Well, to get 90% OTD VS could always do what happens in a lot of US airports where the aircraft pushes back on time and then goes to sit in a penalty box for two or three hours for whatever reason. That gets recorded as an OTD [:w]

No, Ryanair and Easyjet do not surprise me. Their schedules are so padded that they arrive early, do a quick turnaround and then once full, they're off! I have frequently flown with Ryanair with an early departure. You are however not comparing like with like. It is very easy to turn around a 737 after a 2 or 3 hour flight with a BOB service compared to a full 747 or A340 full service flight after a 6+ hours flight
#456076 by upsidedown19
02 Oct 2008, 23:34
Slinky - It certainly looks like it doesn't it. It doesn't make it right but the data I posted would suggest to me that the schedule contains target times which are to be aimed at rather than routinely achieved.
#456083 by aft1981
03 Oct 2008, 06:17
This is a tricky one. What's better, an on time arrival or departure? Are OTD's particularly relevant even?

Here in the US, short haul domestic flight times get padded out so much I've often left the gate an hour late but still made the arrival time, or as pointed out, we've left the gate on time but haven't taken off for an hour.

Regarding Easyjet, a short stint from Gatwick to Amsterdam is always going to take just over an hour. They can schedule that in pretty well.

However, VS is only long haul, and flight times vary considerably. I've sat on the plane at JFK on VS4 for an hour for no reason other than the fact that either we sit there and wait for an hour, or we push back and take off on time, but then circle around Heathrow for an hour because we cant land before 6am. On that occasion there was a very strong tailwind which dramatically reduced the flight time. Everyone was onboard on time, crew were ready, bags loaded, but that wouldn't have been counted as an OTD simply for the fact that there was a strong wind cutting down the flight time. Easyjet, Ryanair etc don't have those issues to contend with. Their flight times are pretty much always the same.

Those OTD stats I don't think should be held against VS. There are so many more factors involved in their flights that affect when the planes push back from the gate. Compared to Ryanair, they have to get 3 times as many people on board, more than 3 times as much luggage, contend with much busier airports (LHR, ORD, JFK, LAX etc), hand over pax lists for all flights to the US. Then they have to take into account many more weather patterns which as mentioned often drastically change flight times.

All those airlines that had better OTD %'s than Virgin all operate short haul flights only/combination of short/long haul.

Getting back to the original topic, MCO can be a dodgy airport over here for getting away from on time. I take at least 2 or 3 domestic flights from Philly down there each year, and I'm always late. The last time I was sat next to a US Air pilot who was flying up to Philly to take a plane to Charlotte. We were all ready to go, on time, when the heavens opened and it started thundering. MCO has a rule whereby ground staff (so the pilot I was sat next to told me, and then later confirmed by our actual captain) cannot be outside when there is a thunderstorm in the vicinity. They can only go back outside 30-60 mins(it was either 30, 45 or 60 mins, I forget which exactly!) after there have been no lightning strikes in the immediate area. We were ready to go, but we sat at the gate for 2 1/2 hours because ground staff couldn't go outside to push us back. US Air actually cancelled the flight he was supposed to be piloting back from Philly as they had no other crew who could take his spot. He was p***ed because they wouldn't let him off our plane, even though he worked for the same airline, and he had no reason to be in Philly, so he flew all the way up there to wait for the next flight back to MCO!

Anyway, I digress! Basically, Orlando weather, as everyone who's been there will know, is extremely unpredictable, with frequent thunderstorms especially in the summer, which makes it hard to stick to scheduled departures and arrivals. I'm not saying this is the only reason why these flights seem to run late frequently, but it is one reason.
#456098 by easygoingeezer
03 Oct 2008, 12:22
The product being purchased is the use of the seat and an obligation to get people from A to B and the inflight services as advertised.

If one reads T&C's and realises that a plane is not a personal taxi and has hundreds of reasons not to take off on time one would know that the time of departure isn't the product at all and no promise or
guarantee is given before or after one hands over ones cash and if one upsidedown or rightwayup doesn't like it don't hand over the cash and then whine about it...sorry.

Now getting onboard on time and then finding your seats innoperable now thats something advertised and not provided.
#456099 by iforres1
03 Oct 2008, 12:59
From what I remember with my assosciation with BA on an time departure is monitored from Doors closed,not actual rotation, well it used to be. This is how it was reported to ops in London. That is why station managers are so keen to get everyone on board quickly as that is one of the parameters they are judged on.

Iain
#456100 by MoFlyer_83
03 Oct 2008, 13:15
We flew to MCO on August 26t, we were due to leave on the first flight (I think its 11:15am or something?) anyway we didnt actually take off from LGW until 3:30pm-4pm.....Initially we had a delay of about 2 hours, then when we finally got on the plane we taxied and then the pilot announced he was unhappy with the safety of the aircraft and would not fly until egineers had fixed a problem (fair enough) lol by this point I didnt really care, I was off on holiday so I had nothing to stress over!! LOL
#456360 by Nemmie
07 Oct 2008, 20:12
We still got a 3 hour delay on the VS15 tomorrow regardless of the fact both flights out to MCO have been pretty much on time the past 2 days. Boooooooooo! Nevermind.
#456371 by jilly
07 Oct 2008, 23:59
Originally posted hb Nemmie
We still got a 3 hour delay on the VS15 tomorrow regardless of the fact both flights out to MCO have been pretty much on time the past 2 days. Boooooooooo! Nevermind.


I had an email early this afternoon to inform me of the delay too.

At least we are now prepared to spend more time in the clubhhouse and will get a decent lunch
#456374 by Kraken
08 Oct 2008, 00:13
Slightly OT [but the same fleet of aircraft], the VS76 into MAN this morning was all but on time, yet the VS75 back to MCO today left over two and a half hours late. What is happening?

Back in MCO this afternoon, VS dumped two 747's worth of passengers on US immigration within 10 mins of each other (VS27 from Gatwick @ 16:38 & VS75 from MAN @ 16:48) Ouch. Over 800 pax in a very short space of time - bet the queues were long.

James
#456390 by Nemmie
08 Oct 2008, 08:13
Originally posted by jilly
Originally posted hb Nemmie
We still got a 3 hour delay on the VS15 tomorrow regardless of the fact both flights out to MCO have been pretty much on time the past 2 days. Boooooooooo! Nevermind.


I had an email early this afternoon to inform me of the delay too.

At least we are now prepared to spend more time in the clubhhouse and will get a decent lunch




See you in there Jilly! I always read your trip reports which are great [y]Lets hope we take off near to the new time, we want to make Olive Garden before it shuts LOL. Are you flying Upper this time? I see you are Gold so you would be in the clubhouse regardless [:)]
#456394 by jilly
08 Oct 2008, 10:06
good morning nemmie

No slummung it in pe this time but will be in the clubhouse around midday

See you there
#456398 by Nemmie
08 Oct 2008, 11:33
Jilly, there seems to be seats open in Upper so maybe you'll get lucky and get a nice beep at the gate [:)]Fingers crossed for you but see ya there anyway! How long are you going for this time? We are going for our longest this year of 15 nights in dire need of it too. Can't wait!
#457448 by disney_cjd
20 Oct 2008, 21:22
I see that VS 15 was delayed again today by over 3 hours. Any ideas why chaps and chapess? We are flying on VS 15 tomorrow (21/10) and hope its on time or if not that the Upper Class lounge has lotsof food in to keep me and the kids and Mrs happy LOL

Thanks
#457449 by virginboy747
20 Oct 2008, 21:34
VS 15 usually takes the VS 44 aircraft so check if thats on time coming in
#457459 by disney_cjd
20 Oct 2008, 23:39
So the VS 44 is on time (actually a tad early). However I know have little hope that plane wll form the VS 15 tomorrow. The VS 16 from MCO to LGW is three hours late and now due to land until 11:30 am so i bet that forms the 15 tomorrow which will be crap.
Flight number VS 016
Departure date 20 Oct 2008
Route Orlando (MCO) to London (LGW)
Scheduled departure time 20 Oct 19:25
Estimated departure time 20 Oct 22:25
Scheduled arrival time 21 Oct 08:30
Estimated arrival time 21 Oct 11:30
#457489 by upsidedown19
21 Oct 2008, 09:03
So there is a big delay on the LGW - MCO. Nothing unusual about that i am afraid as it's an almost daily occurrence. A case of not enough contigency being build into the schedules i am afraid. here are others on here that will try to say other wise but the facts are the facts and They need to build some more contingency into the schedule somehow or we as customers need to accept that big delays are the norm and not the exception on this route and that the published schedule is just a sort of nice to have item.
#457535 by ela123
21 Oct 2008, 21:21
VS15 left at 13.41 today so I'd be quite happy with that extra hour in the Clubhouse [;)]
#457753 by Mont25
23 Oct 2008, 16:50
VS15 is due to leave LGW at 20.00 tomorrow (24/10) - over 7hrs late.

I would guess that the knock-on will be felt well into next (half-term) week.
#457764 by FV75
23 Oct 2008, 17:15
VS15 is delayed until 22:00 today, so that might explain the 20:00 departure tomorrow.
#457768 by BAe146TOM
23 Oct 2008, 17:27
Hh dear thats not good!Although im secretly hoping for a small delay on the 14th november when i'll be in the clubhouse hopfuly for an extra hour hehe hopfully i havent jinzed it!
Tom
Virgin Atlantic

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