But the classics did have character! Every time we took off something in the cabin fell off! And the tiny little tv screens that you needed a telescope to see and to reset them we had a remote control that you had to point at the screen and if you go i at te wrong angle it reset he whole cabin lol!
As i've said before I love working on the alitalia 5, they are my favourite a/c, they just need a little more tlc that's all. Hopefully some good will come out of this mess and the refurbs will be brought forward - fngers crossed.
I wonder if they have suspended all 56 members of the site, means we'll be crew down on quit a few flights now!
Virgin know the planes are in need of a full refit in terms of seats, IFE etc. etc. So much so that a refub programme was announced. Then the bottom fell out of the financial sector with Oasis, XL, Maxjet, Silverjet, EOS, Zoom and many other airlines failing. These refurbs have been put on hold at the moment until the whole global market situation stablises.
Thanks
Darren
Darren
Originally posted by Vegas ToneOriginally posted by RichardMannion
Bargain basement? When you're able to step in and buy $200m+ planes on a huge discount because their original purchaser pulled out, it's a bad thing?
Never a bad thing I guess, but not as good as ordering equipment to your own spec to meet the requirements of your own customers. (All those Italians flying from Gatwick to Orlando must be so grateful for the instructions on how to flush the toilet!!!)
Isn't that what normally happens, unless you want to do things on the cheap?
Also, if it really was such a masterstroke, why wasn't it mentioned in Virgin's press release?
Come on, lets not get all precious about these crates!!!
Personally I love the 747/400s and remember the 747/200s that regularly got just under halfway there and had to come back because they concked out somewhere.
I have noticed on other sites that people with a propensity to namecall or put down are making the 'big deal' 'blown out of proportion' comments now, its NOT ok to namecall customers on a public forum or infer they stink. I wonder how much outrage their would be if such a comment was levelled against CC by one of us or a similar site and how long it would last, its one thing to comment on service another to comment on the person delivering it.
Personally when I work my *ss off all year to pay for a UCS ticket
a get all exited about booking VA over anyone else I don't take kindly to be likened to a Chav or some sort of stinker that should be treated with contempt.
If a client or a business has so many £1000s of £s to spend on a business class ticket how much do you think knowing the staff on board have contempt for him or her and refer to him/her as stinky or chavvy etc on publically viewed media. How much of a factor do you think these things will be to a professional executive or holiday passenger choosing where to spend their once in a lifetime savings, its not beyond reality to believe that these comments could deter the client from choosing VAA or VH.
People don't pay to be treated with contempt. Its no good brushing off the name calling as if its ok to do it and people should grow a thick skin or shut up about it.
I feel sorry for the majority of crew who must feel like they have been slapped in the face by their own collegues.
Come on, lets not get all precious about these crates!!!
These 'crates' are relatively young 744 aircraft and if the only bitch is about the bog instructions being in Italian[ii].One other point IMO these aircraft have the best PE cabin in the fleet, exclusive upper deck 2+2 seating[y].Tatty seats and worn interiors are not just a VS problem some of the BA F cabins are literally falling to bits.
I just can't get over all the fuss about the Italian signage - the signs are in English and Italian (and Braille).
I ordered a new car earlier this year, and was quoted an 8-month lead time at which I wasn't happy about. However, I was able to get a cancelled order with a better spec, but not my preferred colour (and missing one option I did want) for less money and in the space of a week. I jumped on it as it saved me money and I was able to enjoy the car 8 months earlier.
Sure VS yielded much benefit from getting the cancelled order, even if it wasn't an absolute perfect match. It's still a spanking new plane that has 3 cabins, and gets from A to B (and probably more efficiently). Not the desired IFE, not a showstopper obviously - and could be retrofitted if really wanted. The lead time for new planes is not typically a short affair.
I ordered a new car earlier this year, and was quoted an 8-month lead time at which I wasn't happy about. However, I was able to get a cancelled order with a better spec, but not my preferred colour (and missing one option I did want) for less money and in the space of a week. I jumped on it as it saved me money and I was able to enjoy the car 8 months earlier.
Sure VS yielded much benefit from getting the cancelled order, even if it wasn't an absolute perfect match. It's still a spanking new plane that has 3 cabins, and gets from A to B (and probably more efficiently). Not the desired IFE, not a showstopper obviously - and could be retrofitted if really wanted. The lead time for new planes is not typically a short affair.
Originally posted by Vegas Tone
But is this the first time disparaging remarks have been made about the aircraft in question?? (Don't worry, they're aeroplanes, they don't have feelings and I'm pretty sure they can't hear us).
No.
There are regular posts on here and other forums decrying the dated IFE, general cleanliness, lack of refurb etc etc etc.
While you are certainly correct that there are regular posts on this forum about the complaints such as you mentioned, we (or the majority) are not crew and therefore have no required loyalty to VS. They, on the other hand, do.
And the disparaging of pax is disgraceful really, especially when said pax can easily see the comments they are making.
Originally posted by virginboy747
As i've said before I love working on the alitalia 5, they are my favourite a/c, they just need a little more tlc that's all. Hopefully some good will come out of this mess and the refurbs will be brought forward - fngers crossed.
Well, with the downturn, maybe there will be some reduction in the flying programme (already MAN-UVF is going), and that will give engineering some more time to do cabin maintenance? The Gatwick fleet has been worked very hard of late, with lots of tight turnarounds and minimal time at home base.
I noticed that since being slightly redeployed (i.e. covering the JNB flight, as well as the usual 19 and 45 trips to the US), and thus being able to spend a little more time at home base, the LHR 744 fleet seems in better shape internally. Before the redeployment three-hour turnarounds (or sometimes less) were the norm at LHR, between the solely US trips this fleet was working. This probably doesn't give engineering much time at all to sort out cabin defects.
I am surprised that VS don't appear to make better use of the extended downtime (all day sat on the ramp) at places like JNB to do heavy cleaning (e.g. cabin deep-cleans or exterior washes). Someone correct me if I'm wrong?
Mike
There is another route already planned for this a/c but hasn't been announced where yet, prob another caribbean frequency to uvf or anu.
I know what you mean about downtime Mike. When the classics ruled the skies they alternated between LHR and LGW so weren't constantly in the air and had more time for deep-cleans etc. Unfortunately due to the very different configs now, the LGW jumbos cant be used on any LHR routes.
Will let you know when I find out what the additional frequency will be. Crew keep asking for a MAN-LAS but due to the long block time it wouldn't be able to operate as would be landing back at MAN at the same ime it should be taking off.
I know what you mean about downtime Mike. When the classics ruled the skies they alternated between LHR and LGW so weren't constantly in the air and had more time for deep-cleans etc. Unfortunately due to the very different configs now, the LGW jumbos cant be used on any LHR routes.
Will let you know when I find out what the additional frequency will be. Crew keep asking for a MAN-LAS but due to the long block time it wouldn't be able to operate as would be landing back at MAN at the same ime it should be taking off.
Originally posted by RichardMannion
Bargain basement? When you're able to step in and buy $200m+ planes on a huge discount because their original purchaser pulled out, it's a bad thing?
It was a masterstroke in my book. Nothing to do with commitment - they could have carried on with the -200 classics for longer. As JP said, I remember UC and PE on those planes. Give me the cancelled Alitalia fleet any day of the week.
Absolutely agree. And having the funds and flexibility to make such a good, opportunistic purchase defines a good company not a bad one.
Article also in The Register too.
There's a plane at JFK, to fly you back from far away
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
Originally posted by RichardMannion
I just can't get over all the fuss about the Italian signage - the signs are in English and Italian (and Braille).
I ordered a new car earlier this year, and was quoted an 8-month lead time at which I wasn't happy about. However, I was able to get a cancelled order with a better spec, but not my preferred colour (and missing one option I did want) for less money and in the space of a week. I jumped on it as it saved me money and I was able to enjoy the car 8 months earlier.
Sure VS yielded much benefit from getting the cancelled order, even if it wasn't an absolute perfect match. It's still a spanking new plane that has 3 cabins, and gets from A to B (and probably more efficiently). Not the desired IFE, not a showstopper obviously - and could be retrofitted if really wanted. The lead time for new planes is not typically a short affair.
At last, a voice of great balance and reason.
GJ
Lets put it this way, in the next few months i would be expecting cabin crews to be pulling out all the stops to impress passengers as much as possible, this might well be the end of some of the staffers hogging the UC bar etc and generally taking the p*ss when on board and a really good time to fly VS.
On the safety issue, maybe they were referring to the shear amount of static the ninja suits give off possibly igniting something [:p]
On the safety issue, maybe they were referring to the shear amount of static the ninja suits give off possibly igniting something [:p]
Probably the only thing in the cabin that has been cleaned regularly recently [:I]
Don't you just love aviation? Never a dull moment.
No one with a sliver of intelligence would believe:
A) Virgin's fleet are unsafe in any way. Virgin is an excellent Airline, all companies have a few tatty aircraft which Crew hate to fly.
B) That Crew who sometimes have to deal with ignorant, unpleasant, dare we say, common? individuals who treat them like dirt when they are trying to do their jobs don't have nick names for these types. CHAV is a current fashion in Britain, displayed proudly by millions.
This is just absolutely, everyday, run of the mill Galley FM, and in real terms we are creating the 'PR disaster' by giving it credence. They are young, they are silly and they forgot themselves for a moment and spoke freely. They forgot the new world rule:
The verbal statement is ether, the electronic is forever.
Love,
Liz and Jue x
No one with a sliver of intelligence would believe:
A) Virgin's fleet are unsafe in any way. Virgin is an excellent Airline, all companies have a few tatty aircraft which Crew hate to fly.
B) That Crew who sometimes have to deal with ignorant, unpleasant, dare we say, common? individuals who treat them like dirt when they are trying to do their jobs don't have nick names for these types. CHAV is a current fashion in Britain, displayed proudly by millions.
This is just absolutely, everyday, run of the mill Galley FM, and in real terms we are creating the 'PR disaster' by giving it credence. They are young, they are silly and they forgot themselves for a moment and spoke freely. They forgot the new world rule:
The verbal statement is ether, the electronic is forever.
Love,
Liz and Jue x
Originally posted by Liz and Julie
Don't you just love aviation? Never a dull moment.
No one with a sliver of intelligence would believe:
A) Virgin's fleet are unsafe in any way. Virgin is an excellent Airline, all companies have a few tatty aircraft which Crew hate to fly.
B) That Crew who sometimes have to deal with ignorant, unpleasant, dare we say, common? individuals who treat them like dirt when they are trying to do their jobs don't have nick names for these types. CHAV is a current fashion in Britain, displayed proudly by millions.
This is just absolutely, everyday, run of the mill Galley FM, and in real terms we are creating the 'PR disaster' by giving it credence. They are young, they are silly and they forgot themselves for a moment and spoke freely. They forgot the new world rule:
The verbal statement is ether, the electronic is forever.
Love,
Liz and Jue x
Given that I love your book and the fact you signed it my respect for you is high, but I must say as wrong as it may be that some pax treat crew like dirt, the comments made were general by the crew and not specific, it gave the impression that the CREW might likely treat the pax like dirt as the Chav comment was aimed at all 450 odd pax.
Also knowing full well certain seats IFE don't work and then laughing at the pax sitting in them is diabolical, keep it in Galley FM and not on facebook.
Originally posted by DragonLady
Half term week looms.LGW flights fit to bursting. 452 chavs ?? I think there'll be a lot of disgruntled passengers on lots of flights. If VS have any sense at all there will be some disciplinary action for these idiots (who have been considerate enough to add their mug shots, just so there's no disputing who they are).
I must have been one of those Chavs then as I flew on the 21st
Nice. Thanks cabin crew.
Originally posted by Bill S
I notice The Dibb discussion has been removed by mods.
This whole business will do damage to passenger/crew relationships and may well end up in tears - or indeed in tribunals.
Dibbs mods dont like bad words said against their advertisers. They do this all the time
The Dibb removes and edits everything, not a good site IMHO, but that is me.
disney_cjd, there lays the problem, if they had said 'well I had this one pax that was such a chav' then we could all probably agree, but when you start classifying everyone who flies out off lgw.man as a chav then you are going to run into problems.
disney_cjd, there lays the problem, if they had said 'well I had this one pax that was such a chav' then we could all probably agree, but when you start classifying everyone who flies out off lgw.man as a chav then you are going to run into problems.
Geezer (yes you are a top bloke!) and disney, honestly, please don't focus so much on the Chav bit. We're not defending these guys, they are about to reign untold you know what down on their decent, hard-working and very professional colleagues and then because of all this publicity, on a damn fine Airline and company, run by an amazing, brave and pioneering man. But we don't think it's because the have been 'unusual' in what they said, they have been indiscreet.
In the Crew world Chav has come to replace 'Bucket and Spaders' 'Tommy Tourists' and even worst case dreaded sectors (really rough charter flights) 'The Munter Punters.' Who hasn't heard the back referred to as Cattle Class? Or passengers called 'self loading cargo' Please disregard it as Crew slang, it's not nice, but it is the current cultural update.
We don't agree with this laughing at people in seats without IFE. This cruel comment is an indication of their frustration for having to shoulder the blame publicly, often repeatedly, for something they personally can do nothing about. It's childish and unkind. It's the sort of us against them stupid show-off chat that young, immature Crew indulge in. Remember when we told you in the book about the 'too cool for school' attitude to flying that can become the culture in a group of silly, vain individuals vying for attention in the ever changing clique of Crew. Well, this is it in all it's unflattering glory. While there isn't a flyer today who hasn't had a strip torn off them in the cabin over broken IFE, it's not the passenger's fault any more than it is ours. (Really experienced flyers know and accept this for the display of disappointed human nature it is, and deal with it with good grace and good humour.)
Could this be a wake-up call to Virgin's recruitment policy, pay structure and scheduling agreement? They put some huge responsibilities on some very young (albeit attractive) shoulders for scrape-a-lifestyle pay and endless jet-lag. Couple that with a generation brought up on the gossip of Heat magazine and the technology of Facebook and this was bound to happen.
Virgin has some wonderful people caring for the passengers and their dedication and devotion far outweighs any damage some bad apples can do. Lets hope this blows over quickly.
x
In the Crew world Chav has come to replace 'Bucket and Spaders' 'Tommy Tourists' and even worst case dreaded sectors (really rough charter flights) 'The Munter Punters.' Who hasn't heard the back referred to as Cattle Class? Or passengers called 'self loading cargo' Please disregard it as Crew slang, it's not nice, but it is the current cultural update.
We don't agree with this laughing at people in seats without IFE. This cruel comment is an indication of their frustration for having to shoulder the blame publicly, often repeatedly, for something they personally can do nothing about. It's childish and unkind. It's the sort of us against them stupid show-off chat that young, immature Crew indulge in. Remember when we told you in the book about the 'too cool for school' attitude to flying that can become the culture in a group of silly, vain individuals vying for attention in the ever changing clique of Crew. Well, this is it in all it's unflattering glory. While there isn't a flyer today who hasn't had a strip torn off them in the cabin over broken IFE, it's not the passenger's fault any more than it is ours. (Really experienced flyers know and accept this for the display of disappointed human nature it is, and deal with it with good grace and good humour.)
Could this be a wake-up call to Virgin's recruitment policy, pay structure and scheduling agreement? They put some huge responsibilities on some very young (albeit attractive) shoulders for scrape-a-lifestyle pay and endless jet-lag. Couple that with a generation brought up on the gossip of Heat magazine and the technology of Facebook and this was bound to happen.
Virgin has some wonderful people caring for the passengers and their dedication and devotion far outweighs any damage some bad apples can do. Lets hope this blows over quickly.
x
'"virgin has some wonderful people caring for passengers'
I must be unlucky and miss out on these wonderful people only making 2 flights a year with VS! This christmas we are flying with another carrier having flown exclusively with VS for the last 15 years. We were happy paying a premium over other airlines when the service was good."
I must be unlucky and miss out on these wonderful people only making 2 flights a year with VS! This christmas we are flying with another carrier having flown exclusively with VS for the last 15 years. We were happy paying a premium over other airlines when the service was good."
#457973 by Guest
25 Oct 2008, 09:55
25 Oct 2008, 09:55
Originally posted by sickbag
'virgin has some wonderful people caring for passengers'
I must be unlucky and miss out on these wonderful people only making 2 flights a year with VS! This christmas we are flying with another carrier having flown exclusively with VS for the last 15 years. We were happy paying a premium over other airlines when the service was good.
Well I have to agree with you that you have been unlucky.
As a very regular Virgin PAX over the past few months I have, on the whole, witnessed fantastic service by the Cabin Crew looking after me. One of the main reasons I am still booking both my business and leisure flights with them.
Hackneyguy
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