This is the main V-Flyer Forum for general discussion of everything related to flying with Virgin-branded travel companies.
#457960 by disney_cjd
25 Oct 2008, 04:36
OK so if you do not like it do not travel is fine BUT if you have to go in Aug as many people do then you just have to lump it?

We go to Florida four times a year and Aug is our longest trip at a month to 5 weeks so we are quite flexible but its still a hunk a chunk of dosh.

At Easter and flying easter sunday 09 we paid 340 per economy seat with Virgin.
#457962 by preiffer
25 Oct 2008, 06:46
Nope. STILL struggling with your argument:


Aug = busy
Aug = expensive
Aug = Most expensive ticket.


PROBLEM????? [ii]
#457987 by inkiboo
25 Oct 2008, 12:20
Originally posted by disney_cjd
OK so if you do not like it do not travel is fine BUT if you have to go in Aug as many people do then you just have to lump it?

We go to Florida four times a year and Aug is our longest trip at a month to 5 weeks so we are quite flexible but its still a hunk a chunk of dosh.

At Easter and flying easter sunday 09 we paid 340 per economy seat with Virgin.



Saying 'if you have to go in Aug' followed by 'We go to Florida four times a year' doesn't really make any sense.
#457996 by disney_cjd
25 Oct 2008, 13:51
Originally posted by preiffer
Nope. STILL struggling with your argument:


Aug = busy
Aug = expensive
Aug = Most expensive ticket.


PROBLEM????? [ii]


yes PROBLEM

April is the same apart from the flights were 340 each.

So that is a problem.

If you fancy buying me some then please do :)
#457998 by disney_cjd
25 Oct 2008, 14:00
Originally posted by inkiboo
Originally posted by disney_cjd
OK so if you do not like it do not travel is fine BUT if you have to go in Aug as many people do then you just have to lump it?

We go to Florida four times a year and Aug is our longest trip at a month to 5 weeks so we are quite flexible but its still a hunk a chunk of dosh.

At Easter and flying easter sunday 09 we paid 340 per economy seat with Virgin.



Why does it not?

We go at Easter or May half term, August holidays, Oct half terma nd Christmas.

Yes its out choice but we have to go there so many times a year for our own reasons and becuase of school August is the only time we can go for the 4 to 5 weeks needed.

Look, the point of the post was to highlight the insane cost of an econ ticket at Aug next year. yes its a busy time, yes its supply and demand but Easter is just as busy and the flights were less than half so its either failure of other airlines has made Virgin and BA not offer as many discounts or something else

Saying 'if you have to go in Aug' followed by 'We go to Florida four times a year' doesn't really make any sense.
#458000 by Nottingham Nick
25 Oct 2008, 14:04
I am sorry, but I can't see what you are getting yourself all worked up about. As others have alluded to, it is simple market forces.

The seats will be pitched at a price Virgin think they can sell them for. If they get it right, the seats will sell. If they pitch the prices too high, then they won't, and there will be a seat sale around June time.

Virgin are in business to make a profit, and so will try to sell seats for the maximum amount people are prepared to pay.

Nick
#458003 by Pete
25 Oct 2008, 14:35
disney_cjd, If I'm grasping your gripe here - and I think I do - I believe you are mistakenly thinking all ticket prices in August > £700, and all ticket prices in April are approx £340. This simply isn't the case. To understand this, you need to get your head around the rather unique way airlines price their product.

It is unique because in most other situations when a vendor sells the exact same product they tend to sell it at the exact same price to everybody. In the world of airline seats, although the product is the same (and let's just look at the economy cabin for the sake of simplicity, but it applies to all cabins), the price will vary depending on how far in advance you bought the ticket, the restrictions on changes and - quite importantly - availability.

You may have seen lots of comments on V-Flyer about buckets, class codes, etc. For instance, codes Y, B, L, M, Q & X are all in Economy. None of those codes guarantee you a better seat, better view or better meal - in fact if you purchase a full-fare Y economy seat, there's absolutely nothing to stop you ending up in the middle of the centre section while passengers on an discounted X class are looking out of the windows with a spare seat next to them. However, as you probably realise, there is a huge difference in price across those classes - for exactly the same product. In fact, looking at the fare info on Expert Flyer for a flight out on 8th Aug for a week to MCO, I can see that the Y class fare is £1050, and the X class is £387.

The way to think of buckets is that they're like those Russian dolls. If there are seats available, all of those will be available at the full fare price, but as you work your way down, fewer and fewer are made available in the discounted class codes. Because most people buy on price rather than on the fare restrictions, the number of seats in the lower buckets go first, so when you're looking at a very popular route at a very popular time of year, the chances are that all the cheap availability has already gone. There are inevitably going to be some seasonal changes, and looking at a flight in April, Expert Flyer shows the cheapest X class at £117, but the Y fare is still £1050. In this case it makes sense for Virgin to put in special offer pricing because it's off peak, and they have to work harder to fill the planes.

There is a 'full fare' (in this case £1050) for that flight, and diminishing availability of discounts from that full fare price. The fact you're only seeing > £800 available just means the cheapest tickets have already been snapped up, not that Virgin are scalping customers just because that's the only time they can fly.

My advice is either to book at the earliest opportunity (and booking through Virgin Holidays will generally allow you to jump the gun on the normal 336 days rule, as they have a pre-allocation at an agreed rate, which is normally close to the cheapest available bucket); or change your dates to fly when the availability of buckets better suits your budget. In a world where airlines and charter operators are struggling to survive, I'm not sure it's a wise idea to chase after the carrier that doesn't maintain sensible revenue management.
#458004 by disney_cjd
25 Oct 2008, 14:37
OK OK I was just bring to all of your expert attention the fact that these are very high preices for an econ seat and it has not been this high before.

But I will get my coat. Thanks for your help.
#458007 by Decker
25 Oct 2008, 14:48
Hmmm a polite and well reasoned explanation followed by a hissy fit. You miss the point. They HAVE been that high before in the fare bucket you are looking at.
#458013 by Pete
25 Oct 2008, 15:29
Judging by your response I somehow doubt you even read my explanation. Or if you did, you clearly didn't understand it.

The price of a seat with Virgin from Gatwick to Orlando is £1050 pretty much all year round. What there is less availability of is the discounted tickets, and even the £790 ticket that shocks you is a discounted ticket. Saying it is a high price for an economy seat, or indeed that it has not been this high before shows a stunning misunderstanding of the facts.
#458035 by RichardMannion
25 Oct 2008, 19:42
Man, I wish I could get a flight to Orlando for £790 anytime of the year. They are always double that nowadays with the taxes.....
#458058 by disney_cjd
26 Oct 2008, 02:04
Originally posted by Pete
disney_cjd, If I'm grasping your gripe here - and I think I do - I believe you are mistakenly thinking all ticket prices in August > £700, and all ticket prices in April are approx £340. This simply isn't the case. To understand this, you need to get your head around the rather unique way airlines price their product.

It is unique because in most other situations when a vendor sells the exact same product they tend to sell it at the exact same price to everybody. In the world of airline seats, although the product is the same (and let's just look at the economy cabin for the sake of simplicity, but it applies to all cabins), the price will vary depending on how far in advance you bought the ticket, the restrictions on changes and - quite importantly - availability.

You may have seen lots of comments on V-Flyer about buckets, class codes, etc. For instance, codes Y, B, L, M, Q & X are all in Economy. None of those codes guarantee you a better seat, better view or better meal - in fact if you purchase a full-fare Y economy seat, there's absolutely nothing to stop you ending up in the middle of the centre section while passengers on an discounted X class are looking out of the windows with a spare seat next to them. However, as you probably realise, there is a huge difference in price across those classes - for exactly the same product. In fact, looking at the fare info on Expert Flyer for a flight out on 8th Aug for a week to MCO, I can see that the Y class fare is £1050, and the X class is £387.

The way to think of buckets is that they're like those Russian dolls. If there are seats available, all of those will be available at the full fare price, but as you work your way down, fewer and fewer are made available in the discounted class codes. Because most people buy on price rather than on the fare restrictions, the number of seats in the lower buckets go first, so when you're looking at a very popular route at a very popular time of year, the chances are that all the cheap availability has already gone. There are inevitably going to be some seasonal changes, and looking at a flight in April, Expert Flyer shows the cheapest X class at £117, but the Y fare is still £1050. In this case it makes sense for Virgin to put in special offer pricing because it's off peak, and they have to work harder to fill the planes.

There is a 'full fare' (in this case £1050) for that flight, and diminishing availability of discounts from that full fare price. The fact you're only seeing > £800 available just means the cheapest tickets have already been snapped up, not that Virgin are scalping customers just because that's the only time they can fly.

My advice is either to book at the earliest opportunity (and booking through Virgin Holidays will generally allow you to jump the gun on the normal 336 days rule, as they have a pre-allocation at an agreed rate, which is normally close to the cheapest available bucket); or change your dates to fly when the availability of buckets better suits your budget. In a world where airlines and charter operators are struggling to survive, I'm not sure it's a wise idea to chase after the carrier that doesn't maintain sensible revenue management.


Ho Pete

Many thanks. That helps a lot and explains a lot.

Cheers.

I will keep searching for tickets then and hope I can get something cheaper for around 5 weeks in August back before September 2!

Thanks again
Craig
#458059 by disney_cjd
26 Oct 2008, 02:06
Originally posted by Pete
Judging by your response I somehow doubt you even read my explanation. Or if you did, you clearly didn't understand it.

The price of a seat with Virgin from Gatwick to Orlando is £1050 pretty much all year round. What there is less availability of is the discounted tickets, and even the £790 ticket that shocks you is a discounted ticket. Saying it is a high price for an economy seat, or indeed that it has not been this high before shows a stunning misunderstanding of the facts.


No I had not read it as it was not posted before I posted mine. They crossed and you go there before me and I have just read it and it helped and I said thanks.

Thanks again
#458170 by PVGSLF
27 Oct 2008, 13:18
Originally posted by Pete
disney_cjd, If I'm grasping your gripe here - and I think I do - I believe you are mistakenly thinking all ticket prices in August > £700, and all ticket prices in April are approx £340. This simply isn't the case. To understand this, you need to get your head around the rather unique way airlines price their product.

It is unique because in most other situations when a vendor sells the exact same product they tend to sell it at the exact same price to everybody. In the world of airline seats, although the product is the same (and let's just look at the economy cabin for the sake of simplicity, but it applies to all cabins), the price will vary depending on how far in advance you bought the ticket, the restrictions on changes and - quite importantly - availability.

You may have seen lots of comments on V-Flyer about buckets, class codes, etc. For instance, codes Y, B, L, M, Q & X are all in Economy. None of those codes guarantee you a better seat, better view or better meal - in fact if you purchase a full-fare Y economy seat, there's absolutely nothing to stop you ending up in the middle of the centre section while passengers on an discounted X class are looking out of the windows with a spare seat next to them. However, as you probably realise, there is a huge difference in price across those classes - for exactly the same product. In fact, looking at the fare info on Expert Flyer for a flight out on 8th Aug for a week to MCO, I can see that the Y class fare is £1050, and the X class is £387.

The way to think of buckets is that they're like those Russian dolls. If there are seats available, all of those will be available at the full fare price, but as you work your way down, fewer and fewer are made available in the discounted class codes. Because most people buy on price rather than on the fare restrictions, the number of seats in the lower buckets go first, so when you're looking at a very popular route at a very popular time of year, the chances are that all the cheap availability has already gone. There are inevitably going to be some seasonal changes, and looking at a flight in April, Expert Flyer shows the cheapest X class at £117, but the Y fare is still £1050. In this case it makes sense for Virgin to put in special offer pricing because it's off peak, and they have to work harder to fill the planes.

There is a 'full fare' (in this case £1050) for that flight, and diminishing availability of discounts from that full fare price. The fact you're only seeing > £800 available just means the cheapest tickets have already been snapped up, not that Virgin are scalping customers just because that's the only time they can fly.

My advice is either to book at the earliest opportunity (and booking through Virgin Holidays will generally allow you to jump the gun on the normal 336 days rule, as they have a pre-allocation at an agreed rate, which is normally close to the cheapest available bucket); or change your dates to fly when the availability of buckets better suits your budget. In a world where airlines and charter operators are struggling to survive, I'm not sure it's a wise idea to chase after the carrier that doesn't maintain sensible revenue management.



Time to dig out the old 'Tins of Paint' sketch again!
Virgin Atlantic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 168 guests

Itinerary Calendar