I survived the Alitalia five - on facebook

[Darren Wheeler]

Just wodering how long before we see 'Reinstate the Alitalia 13'

Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
I have to say the Sun wins the prize for the best picture IMHO, a great shot of Ruby Tuesday. [8D][:D]

That pic was from some of the original air-to-air work done around the time of the launch of the pearlescent colour scheme.

XLG was the second 744 repainted, I think, and was used in preference for the air-to-air photography, in place of FAB which always had this greyish/steely tone to the paint until it was repainted into the 21st Birthday scheme.

Mike

I don't blame people for commenting on this situation as it is quite high profile, however the full facts have conveniently not been published by the Sun, BBC or any other news company.
We in aviation are quick to point out media innaccuracies when it suits us- such as a 737 photograph being used to represent a 747 operator.
But when it doesn't suit our argument these ommisions are blatantly brushed aside. This case isn't as open and closed as everyone on here is making out to be, because they do not know the full facts.

As for comments on other sites, only uncalled for spiteful comments have been removed. Constructive feedback is not(like the majority of posts on this mature website)

Edit: the post I was referring to was deleted whilst writing my response!

[Nottingham Nick]

Originally posted by ilikebluesmarties

Edit: the post I was referring to was deleted whilst writing my response!

The post you are referring to was removed because it made a personal attack on an individual, rather than a comment about the group as a whole.

We don't allow staff members to be named, on the site without their specific permission - good or bad, and have rules about personal attacks.

We are an independent website and encourage strong debate. We don't censor posts that express views that are anti Virgin, but do try to protect the rights of individuals from attack. (Especially when the allegations made are not true).

Nick

And to add my opinion to the fray of the Alitalia 5, I will never fly out of choice with Virgin Atlantic out of LGW, unless the destination is only offered by them or an inferior carrier (i.e. HAV) because the state of the aircraft, lack of decent IFE- even charter carriers can get their act together at LGW why Virgin can't I will never know. LHR is another matter and would not choose another operator.

I completly agree with the majority of the comments on that facebook site, the aircraft are worn,uncomfy full of chavs- making my journey as a fellow customer hell(let alone the crew) as they do not know how to behave on an aircraft. Although more aware of the CAA safety rules than most average passenger, agree with the perceived safety issues, if they cannot fix minor problems such as replacing a in seat monitor(4 screws and one cable!!) then what else can they not do?

[Darren Wheeler]

Having looked on Cabincrew.com to see the opinions from that side, it would appear that all there was nothing but 'uncalled for spiteful comments'. Now, ISTBC, but I cannot find a single reference to the matter, yet there are several post on pprune.

Although more aware of the CAA safety rules than most average passenger, agree with the perceived safety issues, if they cannot fix minor problems such as replacing a in seat monitor(4 screws and one cable!!) then what else can they not do?

As cabin crew (as on your profile), is there something you wish to share about the safety of the Ex-Alitalia 474-400's? If not, then that is a rather crass comment.

Originally posted by ilikebluesmarties


I completly agree with the majority of the comments on that facebook site, the aircraft are worn,uncomfy full of chavs- making my journey as a fellow customer hell(let alone the crew) as they do not know how to behave on an aircraft. Although more aware of the CAA safety rules than most average passenger, agree with the perceived safety issues, if they cannot fix minor problems such as replacing a in seat monitor(4 screws and one cable!!) then what else can they not do?

I'm not sure I like cosmetic issues such as 'worn, uncomfortable planes' and 'replacing seat monitors' being lumped together with Aircraft safety and worthiness as you appear to be doing here.

Completely separate issues and can only contribute to the misinformation that has been at the core of this issue...

..unless that is your intention? [:?]

Firstly it was not my intention to spread misinformation but neither is it my place to reveal what I know.
in reference to worn uncomfy seats faulty IFE monitors and percieved safety implications I am speaking as a Virgin Atlantic customer.

Many years (in another line of work) ago I sat through a small customer service based video clip from a director of another company, he basically boarded a flight and came across a faulty tray table when he found his seat. On finding this, he promptly removed himself from the flight with the feeling that if they couldn't sort the basics out, how could they be relied to sort the important things out?
When I make the comment of seats/IFE and link it with safety, I do so with this video in mind. That is why I can agree with the point of views and comments on the infamous facebook group.

Originally posted by ilikebluesmarties
Firstly it was not my intention to spread misinformation but neither is it my place to reveal what I know.
in reference to worn uncomfy seats faulty IFE monitors and percieved safety implications I am speaking as a Virgin Atlantic customer.

Many years (in another line of work) ago I sat through a small customer service based video clip from a director of another company, he basically boarded a flight and came across a faulty tray table when he found his seat. On finding this, he promptly removed himself from the flight with the feeling that if they couldn't sort the basics out, how could they be relied to sort the important things out?
When I make the comment of seats/IFE and link it with safety, I do so with this video in mind. That is why I can agree with the point of views and comments on the infamous facebook group.

Are you suggesting the Alitalia planes are actually unsafe and we should not fly on them? Are you saying this as a public service to your fellow v-flyers? Are you prepared to go on public record with your opinions? Have you any more proof than a wonky table?

Be honest with us and tell us your motivations for recently joining and sharing this info with us. We are all ears.

Originally posted by ilikebluesmarties
Firstly it was not my intention to spread misinformation but neither is it my place to reveal what I know.
in reference to worn uncomfy seats faulty IFE monitors and percieved safety implications I am speaking as a Virgin Atlantic customer.

Many years (in another line of work) ago I sat through a small customer service based video clip from a director of another company, he basically boarded a flight and came across a faulty tray table when he found his seat. On finding this, he promptly removed himself from the flight with the feeling that if they couldn't sort the basics out, how could they be relied to sort the important things out?
When I make the comment of seats/IFE and link it with safety, I do so with this video in mind. That is why I can agree with the point of views and comments on the infamous facebook group.

This is like the kid in the playground 'I know something you don't know'.

If you honestly believe/know there is a safety issue with the planes, then the least you should be doing is taking it up with your management.

If you are being constrained from talking by your management then you should not be hinting you know of something here. If the issue is a genuine safety concern you should be big enough to take it to the authorities.

I do not work for Virgin Atlantic.

Originally posted by ilikebluesmarties
....
Many years (in another line of work) ago I sat through a small customer service based video clip from a director of another company, he basically boarded a flight and came across a faulty tray table when he found his seat. On finding this, he promptly removed himself from the flight with the feeling that if they couldn't sort the basics out, how could they be relied to sort the important things out? ....

Isn't that the plot from Final Destination?!

[Nottingham Nick]

Originally posted by slinky09
I'm not surprised at all, bringing the company into disrepute, gross negligence and some other types of behaviour can easily lead to summary dismissal. In this case the facts appear to be out there and many would say there's no dispute about them, even a union representative may not be able to mount a defence - the name calling was perhaps one thing, the idiocy of publicly questioning safety standards something else altogether and I'd surmise that that was what did 'em in.
Stupid behaviour, ultimate sanction faced.

I am not arguing that the facebook page didn't bring the company into disrepute, I read the reactions of certain posters on the Dibb, and whatever the intention of posting about 'death traps' was, it is impossible to defend those actions, and I wouldn't attempt to do so.

What I was questioning, was the fact that all 13 were given the ultimate sanction of dismissal and, though I can't remember the entire contents of the pages, I don't recall 13 people questioning the safety of the aircraft (though I could be wrong).

I am just surprised that the Unions couldn't prevent the 'minor players' who maybe posted more innocuous comments from being dismissed. Unions are not there to give 'get out of jail free cards', but they should be there to try and ensure that the punishment fits the crime.

There is always a danger on sites like this of posting opinions without being in possession of the full facts, so I will hold my hands up and say that I am just introducing this as a debating point rather than a direct dig at VS for dismissing them all.

Nick

Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
I am just introducing this as a debating point rather than a direct dig at VS for dismissing them all.

Nick

Oh I didn't take a inference that you were!

In an age where brand, public perception and the power of ubiquitous communication can magnify or explode a single issue - and hurt companies economically - I don't think VS had any choice but to dismiss them.

Look at the BBC, inaction led to a huge escalation of the Brand / Ross issue, they could learn a thing or two from VS who appeared to quickly and calmly put out this fire (and may even have benefited from the BBC 'scandal').

[Darren Wheeler]

I just find it incomprehensible that a broken IFE or table is equated to an unsafe aircraft.

[RichardMannion]

Originally posted by ilikebluesmarties
I do not work for Virgin Atlantic.

I kind of guessed that, because surely no member of crew would be that stupid to criticise their employer in public.

Originally posted by ilikebluesmarties
I do not work for Virgin Atlantic.

Good pleased about that, if you are just toying with us though I would prefer you played someplace else [n]

[Scrooge]

Originally posted by RichardMannion

Originally posted by ilikebluesmarties
I do not work for Virgin Atlantic.

I kind of guessed that, because surely no member of crew would be that stupid to criticise their employer in public.

Again.

IFE not work, seat back trays broken, fine complain about those, but to call an aircraft unsafe because of this is just plain stupid, to come out a call the airline you work for unsafe because of this unsafe is professional suicide.

There was one post in the thread that made comment of one aircraft having 4 engines changed in a 1 year time frame, so this made it unsafe, it was at this point I knew we were dealing with someone who had no idea how aircraft maintenance works.

I have to say the Sun wins the prize for the best picture IMHO, a great shot of Ruby Tuesday. [8D][:D]

Nick

And the resolution makes for a fine desktop background!

Regards
Bryan

Whoops have I gone off thread?

Well I got an email from Steve Ridgway sent from his Blackberry or so it said apologizing about all of this and telling me that it was 12 people involved and that it was being treated as gross misconduct. Anyway I see that that offenders got the boot

[Scrooge]

Hang, if it was 12 people involved why were 13 fired ?

Originally posted by Scrooge
Hang, if it was 12 people involved why were 13 fired ?

One for the Road[:p] Up the road[:p]

I left VS over a year ago having been there many a year to pop out a couple of kids - (I always wanted twins to get it over and done with in one go!) so am divided over this matter.

The Sun is not my newspaper of choice or even on line news channel of choice so this went under my radar, until an ex colleague of mine brought it up over a play date (the little ones... not us!).

I didn't get to read any of the comments first hand, only what was paraphrased in news reports and by friend (and to be honest, I'm a little sceptical of what I read on The Sun website anyway!) and do I think it was stupid? Yes. Did people deserve to lose their jobs? No, I don't think so. If I know the types of character VS still hire, it was probably a joke that got out of hand. When I was at VS I know they had a culture of no blame and open reporting of any safety issues.

Cabin crew may play to the stereotype but they are a shrewd breed of profession, and should any of those involved actually had genuine safety concerns, I'm sure they would have reported it through the appropriate channels.

Like I said I've not been in a position to read the whole of the postings, but I find it interesting to read on here that not all were safety related or even passenger related. It does seem somewhat unfair to sack them all if that is the case! - My husband was made redundant by XL so I know the effects of losing your job in such immediate circumstances.

Hey guys! Remember me? I was fired from Delta because of my blog 4 years ago.

I'm highly disappointed in VS over this matter.

Do they really think this action will GAIN them business? When I was fired from Delta under similar circumstances, I received hundreds of messages from people saying they would NEVER fly Delta again! And most of them were Brits! (And many were V-Flyers!)

I have news for VS management: most flight attendants, except new-hires, think their passengers are 'chavs' (whatever that means). So, unless they want to be constantly training new f/a's, they need to figure out a way to deal with this problem without firing them and without involving the press. A lot of people may agree with their action, but many more disagree.

My advice: REINSTATE BEFORE ITÓS TOO LATE!

This was NOT a smart PR move. This could snowball into book and TV and movie deals about what it's REALLY like to work at VS. I'd tell you to look up the Businessweek.com article from last summer about my case wherein they determine that DL overreacted, but I've got better things to do... like work on my screenplay and TV show pilot. (Thanks for posting my press release, guys!)

Originally posted by queenofsky
Hey guys! Remember me? I was fired from Delta because of my blog 4 years ago.

I'm highly disappointed in VS over this matter.

Do they really think this action will GAIN them business? When I was fired from Delta under similar circumstances, I received hundreds of messages from people saying they would NEVER fly Delta again! And most of them were Brits! (And many were V-Flyers!)

I have news for VS management: most flight attendants, except new-hires, think their passengers are 'chavs' (whatever that means). So, unless they want to be constantly training new f/a's, they need to figure out a way to deal with this problem without firing them and without involving the press. A lot of people may agree with their action, but many more disagree.

My advice: REINSTATE BEFORE ITÓS TOO LATE!

This was NOT a smart PR move. This could snowball into book and TV and movie deals about what it's REALLY like to work at VS. I'd tell you to look up the Businessweek.com article from last summer about my case wherein they determine that DL overreacted, but I've got better things to do... like work on my screenplay and TV show pilot. (Thanks for posting my press release, guys!)

VAs action has served to retain my business, sure that doesn't matter to the likes of people who like to insult pax but either way its two UCS flights a year for 10 years which will go towards them getting paid.