#461045 by Guest
01 Dec 2008, 14:18
01 Dec 2008, 14:18
OMG ! We should expect all our personal details to be found on a USB stick in some car park anytime soon then ......
quote:Originally posted by Decker
[url=http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Virgin-Atlantic-Selects-EDS-HP/story.aspx?guid={9AC6C8D2-1A06-44E3-8B41-7462591A2C60}]Story here[/url]
Well I hope, really hope, Virgin used a top notch experienced contracts manager to draw up the contract. In my bitter recent experiences when dealing with EDS, before you know it everything is a change control, and the good people who you saw during the contract negotiations and pre sales evaporate once you've signed your life away. That feeling of being hoodwinked is never nice.
H
[url=http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Virgin-Atlantic-Selects-EDS-HP/story.aspx?guid={9AC6C8D2-1A06-44E3-8B41-7462591A2C60}]Story here[/url]
Well I hope, really hope, Virgin used a top notch experienced contracts manager to draw up the contract. In my bitter recent experiences when dealing with EDS, before you know it everything is a change control, and the good people who you saw during the contract negotiations and pre sales evaporate once you've signed your life away. That feeling of being hoodwinked is never nice.
H
Funnily enough Howard we used to write software for HRMC before EDS won that contract and they experienced pretty much the same thing. Users I stayed in contact with complained that software now cost 10x as much and what we'd deliver in a week was now being delivered in 3-6 months due to 'change control' etc.
quote:Originally posted by Howard Long
[quote]Originally posted by Decker
[url=http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Virgin-Atlantic-Selects-EDS-HP/story.aspx?guid={9AC6C8D2-1A06-44E3-8B41-7462591A2C60}]Story here[/url]
Well I hope, really hope, Virgin used a top notch experienced contracts manager to draw up the contract. In my bitter recent experiences when dealing with EDS, before you know it everything is a change control, and the good people who you saw during the contract negotiations and pre sales evaporate once you've signed your life away. That feeling of being hoodwinked is never nice.
H
Howard, touche. I won't add much but you are spot on. I spend my life trying to explain why my bid is right, will deliver, is well thought out, we understand the issue and the domain and is not hoodwinking in contrast to my competitors who bid low and CR everything, then extend the contract, then fail to deliver .... oooh rant off and wine on I think [:(!].
[quote]Originally posted by Decker
[url=http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Virgin-Atlantic-Selects-EDS-HP/story.aspx?guid={9AC6C8D2-1A06-44E3-8B41-7462591A2C60}]Story here[/url]
Well I hope, really hope, Virgin used a top notch experienced contracts manager to draw up the contract. In my bitter recent experiences when dealing with EDS, before you know it everything is a change control, and the good people who you saw during the contract negotiations and pre sales evaporate once you've signed your life away. That feeling of being hoodwinked is never nice.
H
Howard, touche. I won't add much but you are spot on. I spend my life trying to explain why my bid is right, will deliver, is well thought out, we understand the issue and the domain and is not hoodwinking in contrast to my competitors who bid low and CR everything, then extend the contract, then fail to deliver .... oooh rant off and wine on I think [:(!].
There's a plane at JFK, to fly you back from far away
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
quote:Originally posted by Decker
Funnily enough Howard we used to write software for HRMC before EDS won that contract and they experienced pretty much the same thing. Users I stayed in contact with complained that software now cost 10x as much and what we'd deliver in a week was now being delivered in 3-6 months due to 'change control' etc.
I was part of a subcontract to EDS on a project dear to the heart of at least a couple of V-Flyers and have experienced this first hand. We were taken to task for making a very, very minor change to a report that made the client very happy (literally 10 mins work) without going through the billable CR process (3+ days).
Paul
Funnily enough Howard we used to write software for HRMC before EDS won that contract and they experienced pretty much the same thing. Users I stayed in contact with complained that software now cost 10x as much and what we'd deliver in a week was now being delivered in 3-6 months due to 'change control' etc.
I was part of a subcontract to EDS on a project dear to the heart of at least a couple of V-Flyers and have experienced this first hand. We were taken to task for making a very, very minor change to a report that made the client very happy (literally 10 mins work) without going through the billable CR process (3+ days).
Paul
We can get better, because we're not dead yet
quote:Originally posted by slinky09
Howard, touche. I won't add much but you are spot on. I spend my life trying to explain why my bid is right, will deliver, is well thought out, we understand the issue and the domain and is not hoodwinking in contrast to my competitors who bid low and CR everything, then extend the contract, then fail to deliver .... oooh rant off and wine on I think [:(!].
The hoodwink part is where the technical specialists that are wheeled in during the pre sales selection process are in general of a calibre a gazillion miles ahead of the dross we see post signing. The odd ones who are good are spread so thinly that I would end up doing a good deal their work for them anyway.
Another really obnoxious trait are those few odd things that slip through the contract net that were discussed verbally during discussions, often in some depth. These occasionally disappear from the contract and sadly aren't picked up on by us. OK, so yes, our fault for not picking them up, but EDS have a remarkably selective memory for these things, effectively accusing us of never discussing it at all. You then go through protacted discussions only to end up with the wretched change control process for something that never was a change anyway. No wonder these management consultants love change control so much, money for old rope without having to produce a single tangible result. Maybe I should have a wine now!
H
Howard, touche. I won't add much but you are spot on. I spend my life trying to explain why my bid is right, will deliver, is well thought out, we understand the issue and the domain and is not hoodwinking in contrast to my competitors who bid low and CR everything, then extend the contract, then fail to deliver .... oooh rant off and wine on I think [:(!].
The hoodwink part is where the technical specialists that are wheeled in during the pre sales selection process are in general of a calibre a gazillion miles ahead of the dross we see post signing. The odd ones who are good are spread so thinly that I would end up doing a good deal their work for them anyway.
Another really obnoxious trait are those few odd things that slip through the contract net that were discussed verbally during discussions, often in some depth. These occasionally disappear from the contract and sadly aren't picked up on by us. OK, so yes, our fault for not picking them up, but EDS have a remarkably selective memory for these things, effectively accusing us of never discussing it at all. You then go through protacted discussions only to end up with the wretched change control process for something that never was a change anyway. No wonder these management consultants love change control so much, money for old rope without having to produce a single tangible result. Maybe I should have a wine now!
H
quote:Originally posted by Howard Long
Maybe I should have a wine now!
Pour one for me as well...
The whole thing about the tone changing once the contract is in place, replacing decent pre-sales consulting engineers with drones, and verbally agreed things finding their way out of the contract, usually at a very late revision, rings so many alarm bells with me, and I'm getting pretty good at sniffing a rat these days when vetting these sort of things.
I just wonder why VS didn't work with a younger company in this sector such as ITA Software, who seem to be doing a fantastic job with Air Canada? Maybe ITA didn't bid, or couldn't do everything VS wanted. Shame, as ITA seem to have the right idea, and position themselves on shaking up the cosy oligopoly normally associated with airline reservation and ticketing outsourcing.
Mike
Maybe I should have a wine now!
Pour one for me as well...
The whole thing about the tone changing once the contract is in place, replacing decent pre-sales consulting engineers with drones, and verbally agreed things finding their way out of the contract, usually at a very late revision, rings so many alarm bells with me, and I'm getting pretty good at sniffing a rat these days when vetting these sort of things.
I just wonder why VS didn't work with a younger company in this sector such as ITA Software, who seem to be doing a fantastic job with Air Canada? Maybe ITA didn't bid, or couldn't do everything VS wanted. Shame, as ITA seem to have the right idea, and position themselves on shaking up the cosy oligopoly normally associated with airline reservation and ticketing outsourcing.
Mike
quote:Originally posted by Bazz
Does considered opinion believe that the acquisition by HP will have a positive or negative effect on these unsavoury EDS practices?
I would hope that HP will not tolerate having their name tarnished with the kind of negativity associated with EDS. Sooner or later it'll no longer be called EDS I'm sure, being brought under the HP banner.
But remember that Arthur Andersen's consulting division split off and changed its name to Accenture. This pretty much resulted in little change for its customers. Having worked for a number of those customers while the androids were in both before and after the restructuring, I didn't care much for the way they treated their customers like cash cows. Like EDS, they run a model of 10:1 ratio of bad:good consultants. One extreme example was a bod doing photocopying who was charged out at £500/day, and that was back in 1990. Oh well.
H
Does considered opinion believe that the acquisition by HP will have a positive or negative effect on these unsavoury EDS practices?
I would hope that HP will not tolerate having their name tarnished with the kind of negativity associated with EDS. Sooner or later it'll no longer be called EDS I'm sure, being brought under the HP banner.
But remember that Arthur Andersen's consulting division split off and changed its name to Accenture. This pretty much resulted in little change for its customers. Having worked for a number of those customers while the androids were in both before and after the restructuring, I didn't care much for the way they treated their customers like cash cows. Like EDS, they run a model of 10:1 ratio of bad:good consultants. One extreme example was a bod doing photocopying who was charged out at £500/day, and that was back in 1990. Oh well.
H
quote:Originally posted by Howard Long
Having worked for a number of those customers while the androids were in ...
Ha ha, that surely applied to the old PWC ... I remember a presentation given to me by a PWC team in new York about eight years ago, six walked in, identically dressed with white starched shirts and clipped hair. They lost me through mirth from that moment on ...
Having worked for a number of those customers while the androids were in ...
Ha ha, that surely applied to the old PWC ... I remember a presentation given to me by a PWC team in new York about eight years ago, six walked in, identically dressed with white starched shirts and clipped hair. They lost me through mirth from that moment on ...
There's a plane at JFK, to fly you back from far away
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
I was attending a workshop at EDS (Hook) yesterday; the security measures put in place because of the recent data losses were worse than the TSA! All IT and magnetic media had to be recorded in and out...no signature for an item meant it got 'retained'...! Glad I don't work there.....
Tony
Tony
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