Virgin stupidity

Hi

we just got off VS43 today (friday 20th) and have just experienced utter irresponsibility and stupidity by VS staff.

now i normally really rate the on board staff and did today - unfortunatly what i saw (which i understand is not that unusual on this route) beggers belief.

a group of 3 or 4 guys got on the plane and within minutes where downing Heinekens - ok - however the staff quite happily gave them more and more and more and then sold them an ice bucket with 3 bottles of what looked like champagne in.

the group (especially 1 individual) went constantly up to the galleys and were readily served more drinks -

eventually (this is a 10 hour flight after all) 1 of them was joking about with a woman in front of him and one thing led to another and he whacked her (not hard - but beside the point)

the staff then advised that the bar was closed to all (1 hour and a half before landing) and had a word with this guy who was clearly pi55ed out his brain. a few cups of coffee followed (caffeine worked wonders i suppose!!!)

why do they insist on watering people so much on these routes - they were close to calling police or even diverting which buggers up everyone elses exspensive holiday!!!!!

a trip report will follow in the relevant section!!!

I completely agree with how bad this is. Airlines make a big deal about how people cannot board a plane if they are intoxicated, and so this kind of behavior of practically encouraging people to be drunk in the air is ridiculous. And when certain individuals get too drunk, and they end up 'closing the bar', it's an inconvenience to other pax who quite happily control their drinking and just want a leisurely alcoholic beverage. While those pax who do get drunk are to partly to blame for lack of control on their part, it's also a massive responsibility of the cabin crew to make sure they aren't serving alcohol to people who are clearly getting drunk.

I have travelled many times on VS043 and have never had a flight yet where the bar hasnt been closed at least 2 hours before getting there. With Vegas being a popular trip for stag parties I dont see it getting better any time soon..

[Nottingham Nick]

I don't disagree with the sentiments that crew should try and prevent passengers from drinking too much.

What I can't understand is why your bile is aimed totally at the crew, rather than the idiots who got themselves drunk, and started causing the problems for other passengers?

What about personal responsibility and self restraint? Or is that an old fashioned attitude? [?]

Nick

[buns]

Crews on these flights are put in a difficult position; despite the standard on-board statement 'crew can refuse....' telling someone (who is with a bunch of well oiled friends) that they have had too much can cause just as much, if not more, problems.

The adage of 'I've paid for this flight so I am going to get everything I can for my money!' is something we are all familalr with and often this will throw caution to the wind.

I agree with Nick that the willingness of individuals to accept personal responsibility is sadly lacking in society these days[n] you cannot blame the crew for that

buns

[honey lamb]

I'm with Nick and buns on this one and feel that your saying that cabin crew are stupid and irresponsible is OTT given the difficulties that crew are under in such situations. Would you have preferred to have diverted to some out of the way airport to have the miscreants offloaded and then have the crew go out of hours thereby stranding you further and eating into your holiday? You would then have been posting that the crew were stupid and irresponsible for refusing to serve drink to the individuals concerned and thereby escalating the situation.

Recently a crew member posted about the difficulties of refusing drink. In many cases the passenger then goes to another galley or approaches another crew member who would be unaware of the refusal or else sends someone else up to get a drink.

Yes, crew should try to prevent excessive drinking, and yes they do warn of the effects of alcohol at altitude. Pity the passengers don't take them to heart.

Thanks Honeylamb, Nick and Buns, I'm glad people understand the problems we face, especially on the VS 43.
As I've said before it is extremly difficult to monitor the alcohol consumption of each and every one of 451 passengers. Plus you don't know what they have already had to drink in the terminal.
You also have to consider that one person can drink five beers and still appear sober whereas someone else can have one gin and tonic and be completly plastered. Everyone has different tolerance levels, how can you guage how much to serve each person? And by the time someone has passed their tolerance level it is too late.
However, if we see groups or individuals starting to get lary and abusive then we wll have a quiet word and stop serving them, but as you know, people are devious and they will send different people up to the galley each time, or try another galley. And as buns says they start to get aggressive when you are serving other people but not them. We dont have stickers to put on people that say 'I'm not to have any more alcohol', it's almost impossible to police when you have queues of people at the galley waiting for drinks.
Our only opton then is to close the bars so that everyone is protected.
Alternatively we could just do a drinks round and then wine with the meal and that be it, no more alcohol on the flight, but i'm sure most people would not be happy with that.
So it's a bt of a no win situation. I have had the police meet the aircraft a couple of times and had a restraint, all due to alcohol consumption. Believe me the crew would be more than happy not to have any alcohol on board, it's more trouble than it's worth!

As Virginboy has said, the crew are in a near impossible situation here. Whilst closing the bar to all is unfair to those who drink in moderation, what option do the crew have in order to keep calm at 34,000ft? The last thing you want is a pissed up passenger having an argument with a crew member in a galley when the person in front of them has been given alcohol and they are refused - this sort of thing has made passengers try to open emergency exits in-flight in the past (certainly on other airlines).

From the TR's on this site, the early bar closure does seem to be a fairly regular feature of a Vegas flight. I can see why the crew love flying the route so much!

James

[RichardMannion]

One reason why I will never fly direct to Vegas with VS, would rather go via LAX or SFO.

The bar closing a couple of hours before landing doesn't sound too bad to me. After all, it's been open for 8!

It is annoying when you get the bar closed thing knowing it's been a group of W$$nkers that has caused the problem for every one.

[i] Maybe the Vegas flights should have a small corps of bouncers to deal with the Pi$$heads, funded by stiff fines imposed. The old IFBT area could be set up as a holding cell and UC pax could get extra entertainment by throwing economy muffins at the prisoner.... yeah I know. [ii]

[Darren Wheeler]

quote:Originally posted by Slipperman


[i] Maybe the Vegas flights should have a small corps of bouncers to deal with the Pi$$heads, funded by stiff fines imposed. The old IFBT area could be set up as a holding cell and UC pax could get extra entertainment by throwing economy muffins at the prisoner.... yeah I know. [ii]


Such foolishness.

You should be ashamed for thinking such an thing.

Everyone knows the LGW flights never has IFBT!

I'm with Richard. SFO is a far more civilised route, well most of the time [:w]
\/ \/ \/ \/

quote:Originally posted by Darren Wheeler

Everyone knows the LGW flights never has IFBT!



Oooop! [B)]

OK. so the idea needs work....cage above the bar?

[Darren Wheeler]

Better. [:D]

[mitchja]

The problem isn't with the J cabin though on the Vegas flights. Flying J direct to Vegas is actually quite civilised as well.

I wouldn't like to fly any other cabin direct to Vegas though!!

Regards

quote:Originally posted by mitchja
The problem isn't with the J cabin though on the Vegas flights. Flying J direct to Vegas is actually quite civilised as well.

I wouldn't like to fly any other cabin direct to Vegas though!!

Regards


PE in the Bubble?

quote:Originally posted by Slipperman
quote:Originally posted by mitchja
The problem isn't with the J cabin though on the Vegas flights. Flying J direct to Vegas is actually quite civilised as well.

I wouldn't like to fly any other cabin direct to Vegas though!!

Regards


PE in the Bubble?


PE up top to Vegas is great [y]

But, to get back OT, I totally agree with the sentiments expressed by the majority of v-flyers. [V]

Although one would love to bring back the concept of pillories and stocks etc I do see the practical limitations.

However, an easier way to restore order would be one warning. Failure to adhere to that warning means return leg of the ticket is cancelled. No 'if's, no buts' - have any more problems and it becomes the most expensive drink you have ever had. Oh, and a lifetime ban on VS.

I think the onus does rest with the idiots who abuse the bar (I think I posted recently about a group of neanderthals in the VS lounge at LGW who were going to Vegas - and they were going u/c). However, although the crew are in a difficult position, they do have a duty to protect the other passengers. I couldn't imagine anything worse than being on a long flight surrounded by a bunch of ****** wondering if I were to become their next target of 'playful banter'.

Is that not where the crew's training comes in?

[Darren Wheeler]

quote:Originally posted by spiceke

However, an easier way to restore order would be one warning. Failure to adhere to that warning means return leg of the ticket is cancelled. No 'if's, no buts' - have any more problems and it becomes the most expensive drink you have ever had. Oh, and a lifetime ban on VS.



Certainly an idea, but there is a rather large fly in it...

ISTBC, but....

If the return is cancelled prior to arrival (i.e. mid-flight) that opens a very big question. Will US immigration allow them in? As they effectively only have a single ticket, if they are refused entry, VS, as the carrier have liability to return them to the UK. One of the conditions of entry is that you can prove (if asked) that you plan on leaving at the end of your trip. I've been asked to show my itinerary/booking to prove that.

[mitchja]

Simple then, as soon as they land in the US, turn them round and send them back home on the return flight back to the UK.

Regards

[honey lamb]

quote:Originally posted by mitchja
Simple then, as soon as they land in the US, turn them round and send them back home on the return flight back to the UK.

Regards

Without booze

I think that some airlines like the local authorities to prosecute these air rage incidents then thay have a cast iron water tight legal basis for banning the miscreants.

The miscreants then have to pay an arm and a leg to get home on another airline.

Plus anyone prosecuted (? even just arrested) in the US would then have to apply for visa on future visits as they wont be able to get ESTA approval so that puts the kybosh on future trips.

[Scrooge]

I have a feeling that it would be next to impossible for VS to cancel a return ticket in mid flight, on top of that I am sure that US immigration would be more than happy to fine VS for allowing someone to travel without a return ticket.

In the end, a better way of doing is to shut the bars down and announce that after landing Metro will be boarding the aircraft in order to take the knucklehead in 34D into custody, so could everyone please stay seated while the K9 plays rag doll with him.

The problem is that the offence is committed on a UK carrier so has to be dealt with back in the UK. Even though the aircraft is met by the police, all they do is take the passenger details and then let them go, unless of course there has been an assault. I had one case where a group of men were verbally abusing several other pax. We had the police meet the aircraft, and they were duly led away. However once we got through customs they were already through as well and laughing at us. It's only when they got back to the UK that anything would have been done about it. Until that door opens at the gate they are classed as being on UK soil, so no prosecution occurs until they land back in the UK.
I quite often do an announcement at the start of a vegas, warning people that if they are drunk when they arrive in LAS they will be refused entry and put on the frist flight back, which is true. However some people just wont listen and although you can stop serving them, people often have alcohol in their bags that they are also secretly drinking. You cant keep your eye on every single passenger all the time.
Yes crew need to be proactive and stop serving when people have had enough, but as I've already said it's a very fine line between someone just being merry and then becoming a nuisance or aggressive. Large stag parties are very difficult to control, no matter how many warnings you may give them. If they turn ugly you cant run away, you are stuck with them in a metal tube at 35,000 feet and it can be very scary. Yes we are trained to deal with aggressive pax but i'm afraid that until we and other scheduled airlines agree to only giving pax one or two drinks and no more, then we will continue to have problems with drunk passengers.

[buns]

quote:Originally posted by Scrooge


In the end, a better way of doing is to shut the bars down and announce that after landing Metro will be boarding the aircraft in order to take the knucklehead in 34D into custody, so could everyone please stay seated while the K9 plays rag doll with him.

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

funny how UK Citizens always forget that elsewhere around the Globe police are known as law enforcement - expect to be tasered and have a gun thrust at you if you misbehave[}:)]

buns

[honey lamb]

quote:Originally posted by virginboy747
The problem is that the offence is committed on a UK carrier so has to be dealt with back in the UK. Even though the aircraft is met by the police, all they do is take the passenger details and then let them go,


What happens then if a plane is diverted and a passenger off-loaded. There have been several prosecutions over here where planes have diverted to SNN following air rage incidents