VS073 MAN-MCO 27 Mar 09 (Upper)

This is a Trip Report from the Upper Class cabin

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quote:Originally posted by Lizz
I would just like to point out mdvipond that I am not 'threatened' by UC pax, just find alot of them rather arrogant.

Willd you are quite right, it's not easy, I can't be enthusiastic and bouncing off the walls 24/7 if anything else your going on holiday and I'm not!

and maz and daywalker, I'm glad to hear that you are nice people and if I happen to check you in you will (hopefully!) see I'm not rude at all and rather quite nice!


Thats a bit like an Upper Class pax generalising that check in agents have chips on their shoulders and stigmatise premium passengers.

No your not on holiday, you have chosen to work in an environment where people who ARE going on holiday are likely to be.

As long as pax are not openly rude or offensive its actually not beyond the realms of expectation for you to be polite whatever colour boarding card is being handed out.

On the one hand you say your polite and yet on the other you stigmatize and make discriminatory remarks about particular passenger groups. Its not the pax fault your tired, grumpy overworked or disinterested/resentful about wether they are holidaying or you or your collegues have problems with your idea of their status.

Sorry but sugar coated insults don't work with me and I don't need to be grateful for politeness.

I look forwards to my hols and it takes some ruddy hard work saving up the 8 to 10K to pay for it often being polite to people when I feel like crap at any time of day or night. I don't need my acheivement and exitement trashing at the check in desk because of someone desire to get a kick out of bursting my bubble.

Lizz, were UC pax more likely to be cranky after the amenity kits were downgraded?

GJ

Lizz do not be distracted by Grinning...

Egg, top shot [y][y], absolutely agree. In any customer facing job, if you can't put your unhappy face away (99% of tjhe time) and your happy face on, you're doing the wrong thing.

I am just saying that I will try and be polite (and 99% of the time unfortuntely it is UC pax) and they will ignore me and act like I'm something they would scrape off their shoe, I do not deserve this! Yes I chose to do the job and I enjoy it, but I would appriciate it if people would seem to care about what I'm saying etc. I would also like to point out that if anyone had this job they would think similar things, because no matter how rude or polite check-in or any staff in this industry are, we all think the same thing and when you walk away 50% of the time we do comment on either how nice/rude you were, along with many other things..

Kraken we do try and enforce priority boarding, we have a giant purple sign for god sake, it's lethal! As for sending youns down whilst wheelchair pax are still their, that's virgin's fault, not swissports.

Forgive me for the long-winded post, and feel free to ignore it. I'm MAN based crew, and hopefully can give you a little insight into the crew's side of things on a flight. May I start by saying I absolutely love my job (most of the time), and always like to think I treat passengers with respect and go out of my way to help. I rarely take crew rest as I actually like to be in the cabin.

At MAN the vast majority of our flights are full, except for a couple of weeks at the end of January and November. A large proportion are children, and we get a fair few 'Make a Wish' children. I find the families with the severely ill children to be an absolute delight, they rarely ask for anything and despite having a child who is quite possibly terminally ill, they go all out to be happy. I guess it puts things into perspective, suddenly a first choice of meal v a dying child can put things into perspective.

I could very easily give a run down of a great flight, and only give the positives, but bear with me and let me try to explain a few things.

I like to board and nearly always work a boarding position. All flights have now lost one crew member on a permanent basis, and on full flights this can have quite an impact. On the LGW/MAN fleet, a senior (from upper) now has to look after the two rows of premium downstairs, so clearly they will spend less time catering to upper. Consequently they will be less visible in upper.

Virgin promotes Brilliant Basics and Magic Touches, but we are instructed not to let MT take the place of BB. It may well be that on an earlier flight it was possible for the crew to find a spare meal for someone who didn't want their special meal, but now we are catered exactly (try working down the back and looking for the last twenty meals, we are running around all over, pinching off other carts and looking for layups). Finding a different meal is now very difficult. Then of course we get the 'but they did it on the last flight ...' A 'magic touch' may have been possible on an earlier flight, but may be absolutely impossible on the next. We have indeed had an FSM pinch a child's meal from economy, leaving us short, and had to use crew meals, chocolate and crisps to them feed a child in economy. A great magic touch for the upper passenger, but certainly not good for the child in economy. So magic touches can have a very negative effect later on.

Now to the boarding scenario. I board on most flights, I actually like to do it. Unlike LGW, we have to have a crew member at the start of the airbridge to give out kiddipacks, that leaves us yet another crew member short for boarding. Bear in mind six doors have to be manned (the crew member can't leave the door at all), two CSSs in the galley checking meals, the FSM trying to sort paperwork, there aren't many crew around to help with any boarding problems.

When boarding we have to check three things on the boarding card. To say 'welcome Mr X' to an upper passenger is a niceity, but I'm more concerned with the three things I have to check, and let the upper crew give the personal touch. We have 40 mins tops to board 450 passengers. The two people boarding need to check there isn't too much hand luggage and it fits within the required sizes. We then get asked things like: we aren't sat together, we want to; where do I collect the pushchair; I ordered a veggie meal, is it on; where can I put my wedding dress; my little boy wasn't given a kiddiepack, where can I get one; I'll never fly Virgin again, who can I complain to?; people who refuse to show their boarding card and say 'I know where I'm sat', which of course is all well and good, and I'm happy for them, but I need to see the boarding card (my job is on the line if I don't do my job properly); people in a party of 10+ (happens a lot), with only six boarding cards and we have to sort that out; children who turn up at the door without adults and without a boarding card because they've decided to run ahead (happens a lot) ... you name it, it happens. We are also passing on messages from the captain, ground staff, crew members, and at the same time trying to acknowledge the passengers and check the cards. Most crew don't like to board, and you won't believe some of the things people can say to us on boarding, it's not a great start to a long flight. But the majority of us do our best and try to put some of the comments behind us.

OK, so we are now on the aircraft, and then the grumbles can start because they aren't sat next to the entire party they are with. Then we run out of first choice of meals. Then the IFE breaks. It's a case of prioritising and looking for a second meal choice for someone who had a pre-ordered special meal but has changed their mind, isn't always top of the priority list, especially when we are catered the exact amount of meals now.

I was once on a flight and shortly after take-off went to answer a call bell in E zone. There was a guy in the aisle and twice I said 'excuse me please', but he didn't acknowledge me at all. He was talking to someone who was seated. I tried to squeeze past and he screamed, 'you f***ing c***, I'm going to report you.' Nice class of passenger. It's times like this I don't like my job, I'm only human and I have feelings. As it happens, a delightful elderly lady whom I had helped board (she was in a wheelchair), touched my hand and said 'he's a very rude man'. Earlier I had wrapped a blanket around the lady's legs as she felt cold, and those few simple words she said to me, got me through the flight. After that vile outburst, do you think it's easy to go into D zone to answer a call bell and be all smiles? No it isn't.

Again, some things take priority. On a flight a few weeks ago we had three 'make a wish' children on, and this can be very emotional. I was chatting to the mum of one girl and she expressed a wish to take her daughter upstairs to see 'first class'. It was a night flight and I suggested we wait until breakfast when the lights are on, but then added that 'first class' was actually downstairs at the front, where the bar and beds are. I asked if she'd like to see this after the passengers departed, and maybe have a photo taken sat at the bar. They were very excited, things we all take for granted. I had a chat with the CSS and as we had empty seats in upper, he suggested they sat in upper for landing. They were absolutely thrilled. I asked if they'd like to visit the flight deck once the passengers had disembarked and of course they jumped at the chance. The whole point of this story is that lots goes on that you don't know about, and some things seem rather trivial when you do know what goes on.

In my LHR days, I was working premium on a JNB flight, and a passenger was rude to me the entire flight. A gentleman sat behind Mr Obnoxious mouthed 'w@nker' and smiled at me. I blew Mr Nice a kiss, and he winked. It got me through the flight.

So please bear in mind there is so much going on. Magic Touches are great, but in the long-run can have a detrimental effect. We are all aware of this, and there is a fine line between making something 'magic', and doing it too often and it becoming the norm. But it's important we get the brilliant basics right.

I help with Virgin's Flying without Fear course, and if there are nervous passengers onboard, I try to visit them several times during the flight for a chat (not mentioning their fear of course). It can be time consuming, but again, is higher up the priority list.

I love my job and 99% of the passengers are great. I will always do my utmost to help. A little tip though, if you want something, be nice, because the minute you start hurling abuse or being rude, I switch off.

I've met one v-flyer on a flight, and I think (hope) he will say I'm quite human. If any of you are flying from Manchester, please feel free to message me, and I'll do my best to say hello.

This all sounds rather school ma'amish, but I hope it gives you a little insight into our glamorous job. [:D]

Great post.

[Decker]

BRILLIANT post - thank you SFL, it's nice to get another perspective on this. I'd never even considered that an MT fulfilment in UC might screw a BB in coach. I appreciate (as I'm sure the majority of readers will) the time you spent putting together this post.

Hey seats for landing, great post. I know loads of the MAN crew as I do lots of MCOs, so am surprised about the negative comments but you and I both know that unfortunately there are a minority of crew with this kind of attituide.
I board on every flight as i like to be visible for crew, pax and ground-staff and I can keep an eye on what is going on and the captain knows where to find me. I have to say that I'm very aware that this is our passengers' first impression of us so I do ensure that I use as many passenger names as possible and welcome frequent flyers back on board. It doesn't take a moment to get the name as you scan for the date and flight number. I think the problem Mrs B had was that the crew at the door didn't even acknowledge them or even say a word just nodded their head towards A-Zone. Added to this was the attitude of the crew working in J who really didn't seem bothered and made some very inappropriate comments in ear-shot of the passengers. All in all not a good impression for our upper class pax. V-Flyers know what to expect and can compare all the flights they have done so they know if the service is not up to the usual standard.
As you say we dont know what else may have been happening on the day to make the crew seem less attentive than usual, but I think you'll agree that we really should be doing everything to go out of our way for every single passenger in these tough times.
See you by the pool in MCO!

[Nottingham Nick]

Great post SFL. [y][y]

It puts a whole heap of things into their proper perspective. [oo]

Nick

And wise words indeed from virginboy...

[Neil]

Fantastic post SFL, thanks for taking the time to write it and to explain just some of the things we don't see.

Neil

Hi Virginboy, the post wasn't aimed at any particular post, just trying to give a little insight into the crew's day. As for the 'welcome abord Mr X' to upper passengers, it reminds me of an incident when I was LHR based and operating a New York flight into LHR. I was boarding, and as I say, I never use names, I do the three checks we have to do. The other girl boarding criticised me and said 'you'll be written up for that'. (not true of course, we don't have to use names). To cut a long story short, an upper class passenger returned to the boarding door and said someone was sat in his seat. The other crew member was so concerned with checking names and welcoming upper passengers by name, that she was ignoring the checks we had to do. Can you imagine the uproar if we had spare seats and this hadn't been noticed? His luggage on the correct aircraft, him on the wrong? Ouch.

You won't see me at the pool VB, I'm a shopper not a sunbather! You may see me arriving with the MAN crew, just as you are all preened and looking gorgeous, ready to go home. I'll be the one looking longingly at the cookies, desperate to grab one.

Ah those cookies!! I think with boarding the more you do it the more you get used to what you're looking for, and it really doesn't take a second to look at the name (If you can pronounce it) Enjoy your shopping and leave me some chocolate chip cookies!

FWIW, I don't care if I'm welcomed on board by name or not, I can't understand why people put such an importance on it, I think it's more to do with their own self importance maybe?
As long as the crew are polite and helpful with me when needed, that's me happy.

SFL

What the others said, considered and informative.

Thanks.

Paul

[RichardMannion]

I appreciate that it can be a busy and demanding job but it is little things that can make a big difference:

a) self importance, whatever - I do think that an effort should be made to properly welcome Upper Passengers and Flying Club Gold members. It takes seconds, and not needed for the entire plane, call it max of 60 passengers? BA manage this aspect on their flights, and have the same constraints that VS do for timely boarding.

b) what really irks me are the few that choose to work in a customer facing, service industry tht clearly shouldn't. Some flights are busier than others, but I can't think of a flight where I haven't seen crew chatting in the Galley. If all the work, and making the passengers custom welcomed has been completed then fair enough. If passengers have to go looking for a member of crew, then the service has failed.

c) there is a need to think of what really does constitute premium service - think of when you've been on a flight, and offered the Red or White wine, the chicken, beef or vegetarian etc. Would it be too hard to have a better knowledge of what exactly is on offer? Has the cabin been scanned to see if people need a top-up on their drink or if they would like anything else. This marks a good flight for me, not when someone finally clears away my tray without saying a word and asking if I'd like anything else.

I'd be interested to know how long the training course is to convert to be able to work in Upper Class and what exactly it covers. Some crew really do get the concept of premium service, some treat it like any other cabin, and others just don't get it at all.

Deliver good premium service in the premium cabins, and you will likely ensure repeat, loyalty business which ensures the airlines survival. Upset a premium traveller or frequent flyer, and you are likely to have undone lots of work by the airline to attract that customer in the first place.

[Decker]

I was amused by the self importance comment. With one statement you simplify all those CRM systems people spend millions on developing. Why bother greeting your premium customers by name, just send them generic 'Dear Customer' letters. 'Hello this is XYZ Software Company, could I speak to the chief buyer 'Our Customer'?'. Don't you know his name? 'Well he did give me a card with it on but it didn't seem important - is he so self important he needs to be called by it, rather than just being addressed as a factotum?'.

Richard, to my surprise I agree with some of the things you mention. [:0] However, I may be VS crew, but I am a card holder with BA. (VS don't fly the route I need) BA only greet First passengers by name at the door, not J passengers, and only greet gold passengers once they are seated. Nothing to do with the boarding staff. Trust me on that one, I fly F or J regularly (thanks to my husband and uncle) and know the routine.

BA is much like Virgin, it has superb crew and crew who shouldn't be doing the job, most airlines are the same. In fact most customer facing organisations are the same.

I have a J flight next week on BA, and know only too well that I won't be greeted at the door by name (doesn't bother me at all), and it's hit and miss whether the CSD will say hello. One nice touch once when I was in F, was that the CSD was waiting at the door for all F passengers (OK, they only have 14) and escorted them all to their seats. On the return sector, I can only describe the F crew as uncivil and a disgrace to BA.

Most crew do indeed care, but sadly, there are a few who let the team down. A bit like passengers really, most are lovely, but a few make our lives a living hell.

[Decker]

Interesting SFL, I like the escort to the seat in F, but I have always been greeted by name at the door in J. And I'm a lowly silver. Mind you I only fly BA a few times a year so I may have got lucky.

I consider myself a very customer focused crew member. I am not going to go into details, but my performance monitoring and letters from passengers back me up on this. (Do I sound big headed? )

I have no intention on looking at J Class passengers names and welcoming them. Most J passengers walk on and are eagerly running for their seat, and hardly let you read their card as it is. The amount of huffers, puffers, disgruntled, and 'I have a cell phone to talk into' types, along with the 300 people behind them prevent this.

I also chat in the galley! To be fair I am usually setting up for the next service, eating my meal, or cleaning something. When we clear in we have completed our services, what are we supposed to do? Wander the aisles and wait for someone to need us? The call bell is there for a reason and we will come and answer it. (Also I actively encourage passengers to get up, walk to the galley, stretch, get a drink, wiggle their toes, have a chat, and then go back to their seat)

A friendly smile, patience, and a sense of humor go a long way! As long as we offer that then I think we can make it an enjoyable flight for everyone!

[RichardMannion]

quote:Originally posted by Galley Guy
I consider myself a very customer focused crew member. I am not going to go into details, but my performance monitoring and letters from passengers back me up on this. (Do I sound big headed? )

I have no intention on looking at J Class passengers names and welcoming them. Most J passengers walk on and are eagerly running for their seat, and hardly let you read their card as it is. The amount of huffers, puffers, disgruntled, and 'I have a cell phone to talk into' types, along with the 300 people behind them prevent this.

I also chat in the galley! To be fair I am usually setting up for the next service, eating my meal, or cleaning something. When we clear in we have completed our services, what are we supposed to do? Wander the aisles and wait for someone to need us? The call bell is there for a reason and we will come and answer it. (Also I actively encourage passengers to get up, walk to the galley, stretch, get a drink, wiggle their toes, have a chat, and then go back to their seat)

A friendly smile, patience, and a sense of humor go a long way! As long as we offer that then I think we can make it an enjoyable flight for everyone!


Please tell me you don't work in the J cabin. Nice to see you have no intention of addressing J passengers at all, because 'most' walk on and ignore. Why do you bother doing the safety briefing, given that most people ignore and carry on reading their paper. You have to, and I wish that VS would change policy and made it that you had to address the premium passengers. It costs nothing to do, and it doesn't matter if some passengers choose to ignore. If anything, this little extra can drive a sense of appreciation for a passengers custom and drive repeat business. Maybe the amount of 'huffers and puffers' are because they are not looking forward to the flight, maybe they have had a bad experience in the past. True you can never please everyone, and I step onto VS flights now hoping for a good, professional and attentive crew given the patchy performances in the past. Start as you mean to go on, give a passenger a personal greeting and make them feel welcome, maybe you'll find that they will respond better - ultimately they are the people that are keeping the airline afloat.

To match Deckers experience, I have been greeted by my name on every BA flight in F, J and in Y (as a BA EC Ag). Let me throw the cat out here with the pigeons, maturity and professional conduct of a crew.

I can't remember the last time I had to push a call button on a BA flight. Yes the seats are fitted with them, but in a premium product the crew should be visible to assist passengers within a timely manner given the ratio of staff to pax. There are extremes, I've been in J when the flight has been empty and the service has been poor, and conversely been on full J flights and experienced great service.

Hey Decker, I guess that shows that BA is just as variable as Virgin is. On my outbound F I was greeted by name and escorbed to my seat, on the inbound I wasn't even offered a drink after boarding. I have done three J trips in the past few months, never once been greeted by name, but really no big deal at all. I have four more this year (long story, won't bore you with the details) but now I'm curious to watch what happens.

One thing about the F outbound, just as Richard rightly says, they were superb at topping up drinks (I only drink water, but the glass seemed to be topped up without me noticing). In J, on ONE occasion only, the crew remembered it was diet coke, ice and lemon. OK, it's the little things like that that can make a difference (My God, can't believe I'm saying this, is Richard right??!!)

Anyway, I only intended to post the once, just to give you all an insight, so I'll bid you good day, and wish you all many happy, enjoyable flights with Virgin. Still red hot [8D]

[Decker]

Cheers SFL, what you lack in quantity you make up for in quality

You know, when I go into Greggs for a Cornish pasty I am not really intrigued by the detail of how it is made, just the experience in purchasing is and what it tastes like ... call me shallow but that's sometimes how I view Virgin too.

I remember once talking to some crew at the bar flying to Chicago who wanted to really make me feel their pain in delivering customer service, how difficult their day had been, what an early start, isn't it terrible about only having 24 hrs in between flights et al, et al. The moment I said, well you know my life has some similarities, I've not been at home for a complete weekend in four months ... etc., oh no came the resonse, couldn't possibly be as bad as us and of course you get paid so much more. Double whammy! I filled my glass and left them to it.

Rarely does this happen, but as Mark Anthony said, well rewritten here with some largesse: the good stories get swamped by the bad even when they are in the great minority. That's one way to describe how brands are build and damaged? And it's why delivering a top notch experience to everyone should be the goal even if they huff and puff. This starts at check in to at least anchor some of this back to Mrs B's trip.

I appreciate the efforts of good crew and I have witnessed this loads of times, I don't mind crew chatting in the galley, do mind crew in jump seats moaning loudly at landing about their miserable life. Would prefer if some crew tried to know the names of the wine 'would you like the red or the white, oh the 'French' red?' ... (perhaps VS could provide a little crew crib sheet here). Don't mind the names thing but it should be compulsary when taking the first drink order in UC and is sadly not.

Back to work ...

[RichardMannion]

Well there is tomorrow's Sun headline - 'Slinky spotted in Greggs shock-er!' Can you imagine McDonalds repeat custoemr rate if they were to go into detail?