Visas and VA

So I had my payment recieved invoice from VH and noticed it said a visa would be required after 2004. Now all the info regarding the visa situation is out of date on the website so I called them.

They apologised for the out of date info and knew that the extension had been put to the 26/10/06 for biometric passports and that we could continue to use the VWP. However she recommended getting final clarification from VA. They stunned me, all 4 of them I have spoke to!! They stated all passports issued after 26/10/2005 would require a visa, they would not be taking into account the extension. They were polite about it and sounded a bit peed off about it.

So I said I can enter the US on the vwp but VA won't fly me there, they said correct!

Its so infuriating, I have a little trip at the end of October so I will be doing a 'in person' renewal for the sum of £89. Cheaper than a visa and cheaper than missing my little trip at the end of the month.

VA, they confuse me. I'm in no doubt they will amend their info but I simply cannot take the chance.

[fozzyo]

So the US Immigration Authorities will grant you entry under the Visa Waiver Program, but Virgin won't let you fly?

Mat

Thats about it. If I renew (or anyone else) my passport after 26/10/05 then I have to have a visa. They are firm in saying they will refuse pax.

The more I think about I know they will sort it out and allow the VWP to be used for passports issued after this date but at the moment they are standing firm. I just have to bite the bullet and pay for a one day renewal.

[fozzyo]

That seems really strange, I'm sure they have their reasoning - just at the moment I can't see it.

And of course it is one of those issues that you don't want the risk of being refused boarding / entry so paying the £89 fee and day sat in a queue is worth it.

Mat xxx

Thats about it. If I renew (or anyone else) my passport after 26/10/05 then I have to have a visa. They are firm in saying they will refuse pax.

The more I think about I know they will sort it out and allow the VWP to be used for passports issued after this date but at the moment they are standing firm. I just have to bite the bullet and pay for a one day renewal.

The problem seems to be that the biometric passport requirement for all passports issued from 26/10/06. The US embassy website says that all passports issued from then must contain 'an integrated circuit chip' that can store the biographic info.

Here's the link: http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_new/visa/niv/mrp_bio.html

The UK passport agency site says they are planning to begin production and the 'gradual' roll-out of the new British biometric passport in 2006. Lets wait and see what happens

It may also have something to do with the fact that airlines can now be fined by the US authorities, ($3000 per person I think I read somewhere), for carrying passengers with the wrong/in correct documentation.

But the date has been put back, and its not as if it has just been put back. Maybe VA are tired of all the faffing around and decided this is it this is the date and tough LOL

Absolutely - I must admit, I've found it quite difficult to get my head around all the changing rules ...

My passport expires Aug 2006, so I'm really hoping that the UK's Biometric scheme is fully in place ...

But also take into account that on an average day Virgin fly around 2000 people to Orlando, not forgetting all the other US destinations.

You can imagine the financial implications on the airline if people haven't got the right documents.

Now I'm scared!! I've got some flights booked MAN-MCO 27 April next year. My passport will be fine, but my husband's will need renewing as he will not have 6 months left.

According to the passport agency website: http://www.passport.gov.uk/press_160605.asp, if he renews it he should still be fine under the extended VWP (if VA get themselves sorted!), although I don't think the website is completely unambiguous! However, if the Passport Service are not ready with the biometric passports, this might potentially mean he has to update his passport again after October 26th 2006. Sounds very expensive[V].

I plan to ring up the relevant agencies nearer the time to confirm what we need to do, but I'd be very interested to know if anyone else will face the same issue travelling before then, and what advice they've been given.

I don't want to risk not being allowed to fly, especially as we have splashed out on UC.

[Nottingham Nick]

Twinkle.

A thousand thanks for bringing this to our attention.[y][y]:)

Nick Jr. has just turned 16 and now is an ideal chance to renew, we will get it to the post office tomorrow, they promise a turn round of < two weeks, so we should just get it issued in time.

Nick

It doesn't actually take a whole day, if you get an early appointment your passport will usually be ready in 3 hours.
I renewed mine about two months ago even though it didnt expire for a ear for just this reason. The main problem seemed to be the new photograph rules.
You cannot smile, your eye sockets need to be visible and you have to be in exactly the right place in the photo. When I was there the clerk told me that they were returning 33% of applications at that office and the London office were returning nearly 90% due to phot problems. You may be just as well to apply in person. My expensive photos were rejected. I ended up getting some taken in their machine, these were accepted but for the next ten years I have a prison mug shot in my passport.

SLK,

You're in the same position as me

Currently have a machine readable passport from 1996 which is fine for my November trip

Then come March/April when I want to go to Boston I'll have a problem as it expires in August 2005 (Under the 6 month rule)[:(]

I will probably have to wait until Biometric Passports arrive as it doesn't seem worth renewing now, and then paying again in 12 months[V]

Surely this must affect a whole load of people, and Virgin will look at the rules again ?

This echos a topic I started last month.

VA are imposing much more stringent requirements than the US authorities.

As far as the US is concerned, there is absolutely no need to have any validity on your passport after your trip, but VA are demanding 6 months.

VA must get this sorted PDQ ar they will lose revenue

Originally posted by slk
However, if the Passport Service are not ready with the biometric passports, this might potentially mean he has to update his passport again after October 26th 2006. Sounds very expensive[V].

I think it's not as bad as you think. As I understand it, you
only have to have a biometric passport if you passport is issued
after October 2006. If you have a passport issued before that
date, you can enter US on it under VWP until it expires, biometric
or not.

It's only if you _have_ to renew your passport after Oct 2006
that you may have a problem if UKPA hasn't got its act
together (frankly, the chances of them bring ready are
virtually nil but I'll wait and see!)

Chris

I think it's not as bad as you think. As I understand it, you
only have to have a biometric passport if you passport is issued
after October 2006. If you have a passport issued before that
date, you can enter US on it under VWP until it expires, biometric
or not.

Thanks Chris - if that's right we'll be very happy:D

I think I am just really confused, but sounds like VA are too!! I think just to make sure, I'll call them in the New Year to check we've got what we need.

I emailed VA challenging them to explain why they are saying this because I spoke to someone at VA on Monday who said that this was incorrect and agreed that it had been extended. This has caused lots of confusion on the disney forum that I am also a member of. As yet I haven't received a reply so to be on the safe side I've completed an online application form, I now just have to take the photos get them to the correct size and print them out. The pdf document about photographs on the passport office website is very clear on what is acceptable, it gives examples and sizes including the proportion of the photo it should take up so I'm going to take my son's and daughter's photos and get my husband to take mine. Should I get a reply from VA I will let you know what they say it seems to me to be a matter of an out of date statement on the computer system.

Also just as a matter of info many of the people on the disney forum are saying they are getting their passport returned in 6 days and that from being posted out in the first place.

Originally posted by PatDavies
As far as the US is concerned, there is absolutely no need to have any validity on your passport after your trip, but VA are demanding 6 months.

For VWP countries, I'm still not seeing where VS are demanding the 6-month validity (either online or in this thread). Like I replied in this thread, if you go here and enter your details, click "validity" on the page that comes up, you get this page, which is from IATA and states (my bolding):

U.S.A. (US)

VALIDITY:
1. Passports of nationals of the U.S.A. must be valid on the
date of arrival in the U.S.A. For exemptions see 1.
"Passport" 1.e.;.
2. Passports of all visitors must be valid for at least 6
months beyond the date of intended departure from the
U.S.A.
HOWEVER, exempt are:
- holders of visas type A1-2 or G1-4 (i.e. foreign
government officials or representatives to international
organizations), whose passports need only be valid at the
time of entry; and
- nationals of the countries listed below require a
passport valid at the time of entry and may be authorized
to stay until the expiry date of the passport:

a. Algeria, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Australia,
Austria ("Reisepass" only), Bahamas, Bangladesh,
Barbados, Belgium, Bolivia, Bosnia Herzegovina, Brazil,
Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, China (People's Rep.) ONLY if
holding Hong Kong (SAR China) or Macao (SAR China)
passports, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cote d'Ivoire, Croatia,
Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Rep., Denmark, Dominica, Dominican
Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Ethiopia, Finland,
France, Germany ("Reisepass" and/or "Kinderausweis"
only), Greece, Grenada, Guatemala, Guinea (Rep.), Guyana,
Hungary, Iceland, India, Ireland (Rep. of), Israel,
Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Korea (Rep.), Kuwait,
Laos, Latvia, Lebanon, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg,
Madagascar Dem. Rep., Malaysia, Malta, Mauritius, Mexico,
Monaco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua (see note 11
below), Nigeria, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Panama,
Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Qatar,
Romania, Russian Fed., Senegal, Singapore, Slovak Rep.,
Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, St.
Kitts-Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines,
Sudan, Suriname, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Thailand,
Togo, Trinidad & Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, United Arab
Emirates, United Kingdom, Uruguay, Venezuela and
Zimbabwe;
b. Chinese Taipei travel documents;
c. (provided being seamen):
Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, Kazakhstan,
Kyrgyzstan (not accepted are 1994 versions of passports,
which interior pages are red and with a single image of
the bearer on the bio-data page), Moldova (Rep. of),
Russian Fed., Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine,
Uzbekistan;
d. holders of travel documents issued by the Governments of
the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands.

**** NOTES REFERENCED ABOVE ****
*11However, Nicaraguan passports of any type, issued prior
to October 30, 1981 will NOT be accepted, even if holder
has a valid U.S. visa.

Cheers

Michael

To be honest Michael that's what we keep telling VA but I've been told that by them on the phone. It's rather like this with the VWP they know it's been extended but still seem determined to cause as much stress as possible. I have now sent a second email but this time to the customer relations from the feedback link on the website. I have got to the stage where if I don't get this sorted I may look for alternative flights even though it would mean losing money. Virgin need to start remembering that they aren't the only airline to fly across the atlantic and they can't just make up the rules to suit themselves. This is really spoiling the run up to what I planned as a special holiday for my silver wedding anniversary. I booked with Virgin because I was told that they were one of the best but I am quickly beginning to wonder if I would have been better going with someone else.

Sorry for the rant and moan but this holiday is costing us at least twice the amount we would normally spend and I quite honestly did not expect this amount of stress to be cause by a company that is supposed to value its customers.

I too called Virgin on this subject yesterday as it's an important one for me. On the 6 months validity issue I was told that they were well aware of the US immigration requirement (that you don't have to have 6m validity and, if you don't, you'll simply be admitted until your passport expires) but that they were advised, as an airline, to recommend that passengers have 6m validity following expected return date. I asked directly whether they would turn back passengers, or deny them boarding, if they didn't and I couldn't get a straight answer. The reply I got was that it was not an absolute requirement but that they were abiding by what they were advised and the decision on whether to let you fly was left to checkin staff discretion. This sounds hopelessly inadequate. Either it's a rule which is enforced or it isn't. They can't seriously expect people to turn up to checkin not knowing in advance whether they will be allowed to board or not.

They did, I think (again, it's so difficult to cut through the different stories here), assure me that British citizens would be OK to travel on VWP until October 26th next year. They didn't seem to know whether there was any difference depdending on whether you had a passport issued before or after Oct 26th this year, as long as it was machine-readable.

There is another requirement for your passport to have a digital photograph (this is mentioned on UKPA, FCO and US Embassy websites) but it appears clear that thus requirement only applies to passports issued after 26th Oct 2005 (and this will be true for all UK passports issued by UKPA after that date anyway).

The US Embassy site states that anyone holding a machine-readable passport issued before 26th October 2005 will be able to enter under VWP until the expiry of that passport.

Virgin is clearly muddying the waters here (and they are unbelievably muddy already) and does not appear to have a clear story anyway.
We definitely need some clarity our of Virgin before passengers start getting turned away (either correctly or not).

Chris

Chris you got exactly the same response as I did. The person I spoke to agreed that the information that the US Embassy and the UK Passport Office were issuing was correct but I have spoken (online) to others who have been told they would be refused at check in and one of the people that told her this was a supervisor at VA Customer Service. I also checked on the 6th month "rule" as I will have 4 months left on return and he seemed to think I would be ok but do I risk it? The other VWP problem is very serious to me as both my son's and daughter's passport expire in February. The second email I sent was quite strongly worded as I aimed to get their attention - hopefully it will work. What I put was:

This is an urgent matter - I need a reply by tomorrow 14/10/05.

I am wanting an explanation regarding the reason why your customers service advisers are telling passengers that if their passport has been renewed after the 26th of this month that they will be refused their flights unless they have a visa.

The deadline for the visa waiver programme has been extended to 26th October 2006. The only change is that new passport are required to have a digital photograph. Both the US Immigration and UK Passport Office are saying that we will be fine. What is the reason for the unilateral stance - no other airline to my knowledge are saying this - maybe I should take my business elsewhere! Is this down to lack of training, outdated systems or just sheer incompetence. This is causing me and many others a great deal of stress, not to mention spoiling the prospect of our special holiday for our silver wedding anniversary. It leaves me in a position where I may have to make appointments to go to the Passport Office for my son, daughter and myself (my passport doesn't run out until December 2006 but you are also insisting on 6 months remaining on return).

Please respond by tomorrow - I have already emailed once 2 days ago but haven't had a reply yet. I need to get these applications in the post.

I can now only wait. I have completed an application online (although I do have paper copies) I will take the photographs (apart from my own obviously) and get them off in the post for Saturday at the latest if it gets close to the nail I will ring them and see if I can get them speeded up but people have been saying they've been getting theirs back in 6 days so I will see if I get a reply for tomorrow that gives any clarity I may be able to leave it but we shall see!

Originally posted by wendye
This is really spoiling the run up to what I planned as a special holiday for my silver wedding anniversary..... this holiday is costing us at least twice the amount we would normally spend and I quite honestly did not expect this amount of stress to be cause by a company that is supposed to value its customers.

I think that is a very reasonable point. I hope it is resolved soon and this stress disappears; it is not what you need before a holiday.

silver - 25 years [y][y] Congrats.

Originally posted by sailor99
[
I think that is a very reasonable point. I hope it is resolved soon and this stress disappears; it is not what you need before a holiday.

silver - 25 years [y][y] Congrats.

So do I to be honest I've had less problems with easyjet then with Virgin so far and this holiday is costing us 50 times[:0] the amount of those flights (although they were only to Glasgow)!

Thanks for the wishes btw:D

MCuth,

Now you see why I raised this not so long ago. The VS website link you quote, along with the US Embassy and UKPA are saying one thing, but Customer Services (and by extension check-in staff) are actually saying another - although not documented.

It may well be that the verbal responses that people are getting from VS are plain wrong and all will be OK if you meet the US requirements - but it's winding a lot of people up. [:(]

I too am very confused by the VWP and the information in this thread and other forms.

If VA have signed up to the VWP then they should abide by it and not make their own rules!

I have emailed VH and asked for clarification -I have no faith in obtaing any! This must be a glaring example of the less than satisfactory service from VA that is now now being reported.

I assume this attitude will lose sales but only after customers vote with their feet wll VA / VH wake up.

I thnk that th companies should be bombarded with emails from those who demand clarity.

May be if the owner of this site made a representation asking for a statement to assist the members that he can put on here for reference?