While there is much hype about such things I suspect it will not be long before all those wonderful idea like showers etc go down the Tube, whitefish.
Sorry that's OT, and I choose not to rise to yor bate whitefish.
How about really rewarding the frequent flyers - those of us who contribute so much revenue, time and time again. A free number of upgrades each year would certainly be a step in the right direction (AA offers its Executive Platinum members 
eight free system wide upgrades each year!).
Nice, nice.
eight free system wide upgrades each year!).Nice, nice.
Hmm, I would do the following:
Better Food In UC
Add another IFBT onto selected flights
Improve Y to 34-35"
Misting Showers For UCS
VPort for all
Satelite TV of News Channels (such as sky or bbc news)
Satelite Radio (if copyright allows)
Improved amenity kit for all
Menus return to Y and PE
A lounge for all airports with more than 2 daily flights
EMPower for all
Better wages
More ice crem
Metal cutlery returns
New destinations to compete with BA
and finally...
A big fat juicy pay cheque for me, and 2 hawaian islands.
Kev.
Better Food In UC
Add another IFBT onto selected flights
Improve Y to 34-35"
Misting Showers For UCS
VPort for all
Satelite TV of News Channels (such as sky or bbc news)
Satelite Radio (if copyright allows)
Improved amenity kit for all
Menus return to Y and PE
A lounge for all airports with more than 2 daily flights
EMPower for all
Better wages
More ice crem
Metal cutlery returns
New destinations to compete with BA
and finally...
A big fat juicy pay cheque for me, and 2 hawaian islands.
Kev.
I think that consistency is the biggest point here, especially across the fleet - many people end up on an A343 in Y (or worse PE, having paid accordingly), have a miserable flight with lousy seats/IFE/cabin environment, and then never fly VS again because they perceive the rest of it to be like that.
I'd say that the airline loses a lot of customers like this - in Y on the new 744s and the 346s, it's miles ahead of anyone else (apart from the new New Zealand), but pick a Gatwick plane and your seat ends up in twice as many pieces by the time you reach your destination.
The other thing is that business travellers value consistency - they don't want a rollercoaster experience - they're tired and working and want a guarantee that their flight will go smoothly without any nasty surprises. That's why BA do so well. More Clubhouses would also help in this regard.
Something else to consider - Flying Club Black?
I say this because Gold does not stack up to other airlines - sure it's easier to obtain, but it's less rewarding that say, BA Gold, which gives you lounge access whoever you fly with (unlike VS), plus they have more lounges anyway.
New BUSINESS routes should be established - another reason businessmen don't like VS - limited route network. You can travel on partner airlines, but TPs, mileage, and lounges aren't as generous. Fix those issues and go to underserved business markets as well, to establish Virgin as a serious alternative - Seattle seems like a good bet as well as the Far East.
I'd say that the airline loses a lot of customers like this - in Y on the new 744s and the 346s, it's miles ahead of anyone else (apart from the new New Zealand), but pick a Gatwick plane and your seat ends up in twice as many pieces by the time you reach your destination.
The other thing is that business travellers value consistency - they don't want a rollercoaster experience - they're tired and working and want a guarantee that their flight will go smoothly without any nasty surprises. That's why BA do so well. More Clubhouses would also help in this regard.
Something else to consider - Flying Club Black?
I say this because Gold does not stack up to other airlines - sure it's easier to obtain, but it's less rewarding that say, BA Gold, which gives you lounge access whoever you fly with (unlike VS), plus they have more lounges anyway.
New BUSINESS routes should be established - another reason businessmen don't like VS - limited route network. You can travel on partner airlines, but TPs, mileage, and lounges aren't as generous. Fix those issues and go to underserved business markets as well, to establish Virgin as a serious alternative - Seattle seems like a good bet as well as the Far East.
This really is an interesting topic, and I am sure one that is being viewed by quite a few in the office (hello BTW 
)
There are lots of good suggestions that have been made already, and to add more to my first comment - there are a lot of people at VS that read through all different areas of the site for various feedback and opinion. Balancing the business is a tough act, you will never please everyone, there is cost associated with most of the suggestions put forward and there is an element of eavluating them as there is a business to run. VS does make a profit, but its not huge considering the revenue. The airline industry has had a tough ride, and I sympathise with the non-US carriers such as VS and BA, as they have had to make changes since 9/11 at their expense, the US airlines have ahd the luxury to go cap-in-hand to the Government for handouts to pay for changes and many of the big carriers are still in Chapter 11.
In regards to Flying club, I know that a large number of suggestions have been gathered from here and from frequent flyers, they are regular brainstorming meetings to look through ways of making improvements. Some have a cost of course. If you look back through the years of FT and VF, you will see where people have discussed benefits and VS have actually gone and listened.
Each FF program has normally a really cool benefit that is sometimes unique that people wish applied to other FF programs - maybe SWU's or BA's 2 for 1 on redemeption bookings. On the whole I like FC, and thats why I stay a member - I'm sure if you asked BA members that don't fly that regularly, they would love to earn miles on practically every fare (like VS does). No program will ever be perfect, and will never please everyone.
All I can say is keep your suggestions, topics, Trip Reports etc coming, as they are read.
Not sure if a PR has gone out yet, but MpM has been enhanced. Fares are now changeable for a £50 fee, without the ApEx requirements and you can also upgrade the fare to a qualifying revenue fare if need be. Handy if you need to go at short notice, may save you having to buy a B or Y fare say!
Thanks,
Richard
)There are lots of good suggestions that have been made already, and to add more to my first comment - there are a lot of people at VS that read through all different areas of the site for various feedback and opinion. Balancing the business is a tough act, you will never please everyone, there is cost associated with most of the suggestions put forward and there is an element of eavluating them as there is a business to run. VS does make a profit, but its not huge considering the revenue. The airline industry has had a tough ride, and I sympathise with the non-US carriers such as VS and BA, as they have had to make changes since 9/11 at their expense, the US airlines have ahd the luxury to go cap-in-hand to the Government for handouts to pay for changes and many of the big carriers are still in Chapter 11.
In regards to Flying club, I know that a large number of suggestions have been gathered from here and from frequent flyers, they are regular brainstorming meetings to look through ways of making improvements. Some have a cost of course. If you look back through the years of FT and VF, you will see where people have discussed benefits and VS have actually gone and listened.
Each FF program has normally a really cool benefit that is sometimes unique that people wish applied to other FF programs - maybe SWU's or BA's 2 for 1 on redemeption bookings. On the whole I like FC, and thats why I stay a member - I'm sure if you asked BA members that don't fly that regularly, they would love to earn miles on practically every fare (like VS does). No program will ever be perfect, and will never please everyone.
All I can say is keep your suggestions, topics, Trip Reports etc coming, as they are read.
Not sure if a PR has gone out yet, but MpM has been enhanced. Fares are now changeable for a £50 fee, without the ApEx requirements and you can also upgrade the fare to a qualifying revenue fare if need be. Handy if you need to go at short notice, may save you having to buy a B or Y fare say!
Thanks,
Richard
I think InsertNameHere's hit the nail on the head. Consistency. We hear all the time about "business routes" and "Bucket and Spade" routes but at the end of the day, aren't they all just flights? Why can't Virgin (or anyone else for that matter) see that the B&S brigade who travel out of LGW are just as important as the "suits" that travel out of LHR?
I know it's expensive to upgrade a plane (£20m for V-PORT is it?) and if I ran Virgin, I'd probably have them bankrupt in a week! But, due to the lack of cash (and in fairness to LGW pax), why can't LHR and LGW at least share their aircraft to give at least a sporting chance of sampling how the other half live?
I know it's expensive to upgrade a plane (£20m for V-PORT is it?) and if I ran Virgin, I'd probably have them bankrupt in a week! But, due to the lack of cash (and in fairness to LGW pax), why can't LHR and LGW at least share their aircraft to give at least a sporting chance of sampling how the other half live?
And, in terms of Upper Class, revenue yield per passenger is much higher on business routes than B&S routes where most pax are booked through VH or well in advance on discounted fares. In terms of Upper Class business pax are much more important than leisure pax. I'm both, but should I expect the same experience on a £1,400 Z fare to Barbados as I do on a £4,000 DAP7 to IAD?
BC
BC
I think UC should be UC should be UC.
A product is a product. . .
Isn't it the destination/timing/source of who's paying that really dictate the cost of business class travel? If an airline can sell at 4k because of demand on one route but only get 1.4k on another because it's an entirely different market then they do right by managing the amount of seats available - as in the B&S fleet.
I agree that the IAD 4k traveller is more important to the airline that the 1.4k traveller to BGI but, they are possibly the same people so CONSISTENCY is the name of the game!
John
JT
A product is a product. . .
Isn't it the destination/timing/source of who's paying that really dictate the cost of business class travel? If an airline can sell at 4k because of demand on one route but only get 1.4k on another because it's an entirely different market then they do right by managing the amount of seats available - as in the B&S fleet.
I agree that the IAD 4k traveller is more important to the airline that the 1.4k traveller to BGI but, they are possibly the same people so CONSISTENCY is the name of the game!
John
JT
In all fairness BlackCat, you do get what you pay for. I have booked our honeymoon flights to MCO on a Z fare (all I can afford I'm afraid) and for that, I have to make some sacrifices. I cannot get the chauffeur driven car to the airport, I cannot cancel my flight or change my flight. On a J fare, you're far more able to do what you need to do as a business passenger, but a business pax boards the aircraft, just as a B&S does.
I'm not disputing that Virgin make most of their money (per passenger) from business customers, but what incentives have business customers got to fly Virgin from Gatwick, when the Heathrow facilities (on the ground and in the air) are so much better, then you get a connecting flight at the other end? A good friend of mine owns a business in Tampa and he chooses to fly LHR-MIA and drive, when a flight to MCO would be much closer for his work. The reason? The poor facilities at LGW.
I'm not disputing that Virgin make most of their money (per passenger) from business customers, but what incentives have business customers got to fly Virgin from Gatwick, when the Heathrow facilities (on the ground and in the air) are so much better, then you get a connecting flight at the other end? A good friend of mine owns a business in Tampa and he chooses to fly LHR-MIA and drive, when a flight to MCO would be much closer for his work. The reason? The poor facilities at LGW.
I think VS should also try to put more comfort into the economy sections. Just because they are cheaper doesn't mean that an airline can't make them go above and beyond the "status-quo" for coach seats. Okay, so the tv screens are great, they really are, but when your knees are grinding against the seat in front of you and the tray table can't come to it's normal position without resting on your legs, something is clearly wrong. And the worst part is that I'm only 17 freakin years old, imagine what people older and bigger than me have to deal with!
Originally posted by RichardMannion
Hi MCONut,
Its ~£3m per plane for Vport
Thanks,
Richard
and it only has to be rebooted 4 times to get the thing to work..another great product from linux,how about we get the thing working right before installing it across the fleet,agree about the need to turn it on quicker after take-off.
Originally posted by JAT74L
I agree that the IAD 4k traveller is more important to the airline that the 1.4k traveller to BGI but, they are possibly the same people so CONSISTENCY is the name of the game!
I am that person
but I do recognise that from Virgin's perspective I am far more valuable when I travel on short notice on a business flight from Heathrow. Would I expect a proper Clubhouse at BGI or ANU? No. Would I expect a snooze zone on the return flight? No. Would I expect the same choice of seats on the plane? No.I think better consistency across the fleet would be good, but from Virgin's perspective there is little incentive to address ex-LHR vs ex-LGW whilst (a) loads are high and (b) there is the difference in relative value between UC pax.
BC
Originally posted by MCONut
In all fairness BlackCat, you do get what you pay for.
That's kind of the point I was trying to make!
what incentives have business customers got to fly Virgin from Gatwick, when the Heathrow facilities (on the ground and in the air) are so much better
None at all. But then again the destinations served by VS from LGW are primarily leisure destinations, hence the reason why VS invests in supporting business travellers at LHR instead.
BC
But then again the destinations served by VS from LGW are primarily leisure destinations, hence the reason why VS invests in supporting business travellers at LHR instead.
I quite agree, and I recognise that this policy is probably needed to keep Virgin running as smoothly as it does. But the original point of the discussion was "What would I spend the money on?" And the answer to that would be to cut the "discrimination" between LHR and LGW/MAN pax.
PS. I know I'm a newbie, and I'm not trying to wind anyone up! Honest!! [:w]
Maybe holiday+ is a good idea, so people don't expect the same out of LGW in UC as from LHR. The danger is people having a bad experience from LGW and then branding the rest of the UC product the same.
In terms of Y, I could justify investing more money in certain areas as long as it doesn't entail significantly higher operating costs. But increasing the seat pitch is expensive and decreases revenue on an ongoing, long term basis. But standardising seats (the V:Port economy seat is the best I've been in), etc. would be reasonably feasible (I'd have thought...)
In terms of Y, I could justify investing more money in certain areas as long as it doesn't entail significantly higher operating costs. But increasing the seat pitch is expensive and decreases revenue on an ongoing, long term basis. But standardising seats (the V:Port economy seat is the best I've been in), etc. would be reasonably feasible (I'd have thought...)
It's actually £5 million to fit VPort in an aircraft but hey what's £2 million [:p]
Richard is absolutely correct though, lots of people in Virgin read this site and I have that on very good authority so keep your ideas coming because your feedback is invaluable.
Just to add my opionion, if I ran the company I would spend more money on the crew.... biased? Me? Never!! [:I]
Richard is absolutely correct though, lots of people in Virgin read this site and I have that on very good authority so keep your ideas coming because your feedback is invaluable.
Just to add my opionion, if I ran the company I would spend more money on the crew.... biased? Me? Never!! [:I]
As people have said, constistency is the name of the game. I do agree that as VS get more out of a "suit" flying J than a B&S passenger flying on a Z fare. However, this does not mean that the difference in product should be so visible. If someone is flying in UC, they should expect the same whatever they paid for. VS decided to sell the discounted tickets, so, unless they say otherwise, they should provide the same service.
I myself am pretty much a LHR traveller and don't have that much experience of LGW, but I know from some flights and participating on here that the product is definitely the same. If someone flew from JFK, say, to LHR in UCS with v:port, CHs etc. and then got on a flight from LGWS to MCO, for example, they would find it a very different experience. Although there is UCS and a CH, apart from the crew, the similarities pretty much stop there. There's no CH at MCO, there's no v:port, the CH at LGW is much smaller, there is no bar etc. I think this level of inconsistency is what keeps people at BA. Their service/seats may not compare with VS at its best, but it is certaintly better than a so called "bucket & spade" flight to somewhere in the Carribbean.
Now I know VS can't do everything at once, but they certainly could endeavour to level out things at LGW and make more of an effort to upgrade the product. I mean, the IFE is really three behind LHR Nova, Arcadia, Oddyssey...(v:port is probably worth a few more dots;))v:port.
I apologise for the long post[:I]
Cheers,
VS045
I myself am pretty much a LHR traveller and don't have that much experience of LGW, but I know from some flights and participating on here that the product is definitely the same. If someone flew from JFK, say, to LHR in UCS with v:port, CHs etc. and then got on a flight from LGWS to MCO, for example, they would find it a very different experience. Although there is UCS and a CH, apart from the crew, the similarities pretty much stop there. There's no CH at MCO, there's no v:port, the CH at LGW is much smaller, there is no bar etc. I think this level of inconsistency is what keeps people at BA. Their service/seats may not compare with VS at its best, but it is certaintly better than a so called "bucket & spade" flight to somewhere in the Carribbean.
Now I know VS can't do everything at once, but they certainly could endeavour to level out things at LGW and make more of an effort to upgrade the product. I mean, the IFE is really three behind LHR Nova, Arcadia, Oddyssey...(v:port is probably worth a few more dots;))v:port.
I apologise for the long post[:I]
Cheers,
VS045
1. I would fit V:Port to all A/C
2. Increase services from MAN (and not just B&S routes either) - JFK/LAS/IAD (that ones easy after BMI pulled that one) etc. This would also include a VS CH at MAN
3. Award FC miles on all economy fares (not necessary 100% but say 75% mark)
4. Give the crew a pay rise
Regards
2. Increase services from MAN (and not just B&S routes either) - JFK/LAS/IAD (that ones easy after BMI pulled that one) etc. This would also include a VS CH at MAN
3. Award FC miles on all economy fares (not necessary 100% but say 75% mark)
4. Give the crew a pay rise
Regards
Regards
James Mitchell
James Mitchell
Originally posted by Decker
Perhaps a "Holiday+" service instead of UC out of LGW. "Start your holiday the way you mean to go on". Don't call it UC so as not to dilute the brand?
Thats a kick a#re idea. Beef up UCS, better wine, Book the Cook a la SQ (at least from LHR/MAN/LGW), and restaurant/bar area (5TPs/200%)
Holiplus cross between PE and current UCS; with a yellow boarding card and PE boarding/checkin, no lounge access without silver or gold FC card (4TPs/175%),
Keep PE and Y as they are.
UC checkin is still for Gold and UC only (mostly)
Just prefect for the A380.
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