If you ran VS where would YOU spend the money?

Originally posted by Decker
Suggest you turn your paranoid filter down Sailor as it seems I'm getting at you .

This post shows a GREAT use of companion for Y.

Nope - I really didn't think you were getting at me.

And yes, that was the post I was thinking of - thanks

Have been giving the old Y companion ticket issue a bit of a look recently - hence the example.

You tend to find that the differential between the fare classes remains similar throughout the year although the base N/X class fare tends to change. So if the N fare is around £200 ex tax and the L is around £400 (as they often are in low season) there is little point in using a companion ticket.

However in High Season the N fare may be closer to £500 but the L can still be had for around £700 which tends to make it much more worth a look.

Phil

P.S. Of course on two revenue tickets you'll get two sets of miles whereas an L class will only get you 1.25 actual miles - so worth factoring this in.

Originally posted by sailor99

1) Flying Club. For me this is one of the major strengths of VS. It is really great that you can get somewhere in the scheme without having to do ridiculous amounts. I think I would be a little cotracercial and increase the gold TP's to somewhere around 70.

That's one I'd be really careful with, TBH. Set the bar too high, and people will walk, case in point, me.

Right now, I don't fly BA because it's too damned hard to earn any sort of status without forking out for mondo expensive tickets - BAEC doesn't give any tier points (and insultingly low mileage credit) on most discounted economy fares. If I could realistically earn and retain status on BA (even Silver), I'd use them a lot more often.

I'd say my flying is split something like 50% long-haul (probably 6-8 intercontinental per year, not all to VS destinations, so about 25%-30% of total long haul flying is on VS), and 50% UK domestic and European short-haul (using a mixed bag of airlines).

Unfortunately, my company travel policy seldom stretches to full-fare Js (or even Ds), so on VS, it's Z or S/W (with mileage upgrades where availble) for me.

As VS don't have very strong European alliance partners (with poor status recognition), I keep a United Mileage Plus card, and manage to keep requalifying Premier Exec (*A Gold), which credits qualifying miles and 100% on almost all fares, and status is honoured by all *A partners, so I get fairly good Euro coverage that way.

If the bar was raised too high, it would seem very difficult to get the rewards of status, and I'd probably fall into the camp of people who would give up on VS.

If for whatever reason I don't manage enough flying to requalify my Gold status, I'd probably walk away from VS, as I won't have access to any of the things which make VS really unique and worthwhile right now - VS in it's present form just becomes some fair-to-middling carrier (apart from the IFE), with it's target firmly set on the holiday traveller, when you're sat down the back.

Mike

[preiffer]

Originally posted by sailor99

1) Flying Club. For me this is one of the major strengths of VS. It is really great that you can get somewhere in the scheme without having to do ridiculous amounts. I think I would be a little cotracercial and increase the gold TP's to somewhere around 70.

Not sure it needs to go to 70 - maybe 40 or 50?

One thing I WOULD do, however, is close that SQ loophole for SIN/KUL runs. It makes a mockery of the whole scheme at the moment.

Originally posted by preiffer
One thing I WOULD do, however, is close that SQ loophole for SIN/KUL runs. It makes a mockery of the whole scheme at the moment.

"Baht runs" exist for most FF schemes which have alliances in the area.

It's not uncommon for people who are falling short of 1k status on UA to do a Baht run to make up the remaining Elite Qualifying Sectors.

I think if you're going to try and stop being able to earn qualifying miles on a Baht run, you need to be fairly confident that the competition will follow suit and do the same thing.

(Then, some airline marketing departments do behave like sheep! I wonder who the sheepdog is these days?)

Cheers,
Mike

[fozzyo]

Originally posted by preiffer
One thing I WOULD do, however, is close that SQ loophole for SIN/KUL runs. It makes a mockery of the whole scheme at the moment.

Why? Who are the only people who are going to use it? Those dedicated to the airline, and by doing so it only keeps them with the airline.

Yeah so they may not be massive revenue pax but they are still a regular income for the airline. I can't believe that many people actually do it every year that it actually causes any degredation in service levels.

Mat xxx

[preiffer]

Originally posted by fozzyo
Why? Who are the only people who are going to use it? Those dedicated to the airline, and by doing so it only keeps them with the airline.

Because, at the same time everyone is campaigning for VS to spend more money on Silver benefits, they're having to shell out to accomodate those that have flown 1 (maybe even 0 [:0]) flights with VS, yet still have Gold status.

For these passengers, their 1 economy flight to somewhere once a year costs VS an extra (guessing) £2-300 in services/ammenities etc, and the only loyalty shown to VS themselves is that one flight. And yes, I know a few people that use such loopholes with VS as well as other airlines.

I *know* this is controversial, but I think there should at least be some form of limit - ie: 50% of "earned" tier points have to be on VS metal. (Similar in ways to what BA do, and how UA calculate lifetime mileage).

Originally posted by kkempton
Metal cutlery returns

Is this back on VS yet? Even BA Club Europe has metal cutlery, including knives (now they've finally pulled themselves together and have a short haul catering service in and out of LHR again).

Cheers, Howard

Originally posted by preiffer
(Similar in ways to what BA do, and how UA calculate lifetime mileage).

UA also generously reward their Premier pax with additional bonus miles for travel on UA metal, which is another great incentive to fly on UA where you may have a choice between UA or another allied carrier on a particular route.

Mike

[preiffer]

Originally posted by Howard Long

Originally posted by kkempton
Metal cutlery returns

Is this back on VS yet? Even BA Club Europe has metal cutlery, including knives (now they've finally pulled themselves together and have a short haul catering service in and out of LHR again).

If they removed the little red pillows to "save weight", I can't see them putting a load of metal cutlery back on anytime soon... [n]

Originally posted by Howard Long
Is this back on VS yet?

Nope, was plastic both ways this weekend, and I've not seen word anywhere that it is in the offing.

Plastic still seems to be the order of the day.

Even BA Club Europe has metal cutlery, including knives (now they've finally pulled themselves together and have a short haul catering service in and out of LHR again).

...and little gate-fold menu cards as well (certainly on the LHR-ATH-LHR flights I did across Xmas).

Mike

Originally posted by preiffer
Not sure it needs to go to 70 - maybe 40 or 50?

I guess it would be fair to say that I just plucked the 70 out of the air. 40 would be too low by my rekoning. 50/60 maybe more sensible, with the normal reduced renewal level. However I am mindfull of Mikes point re: walking if it all becomes too hard. For me the only way that raising the bar becomes workable is if silver becomes more valuable. Right at the moment I would argue that silver is about as much use as a chocolate gun. So people who do a modest amount a flying can get to silver & get some benefit for it. People who do lots of flying get to gold and get lots for it - right at the moment there is no where (publically advertised and known) to go after gold.

I suppose another way of looking at it is to take out the colours to make it less perjoritive. I am thinking about dumping the existing silver level and having 3 levels - the existing red, the second level being gold less a few benefits, and the top level being V50 less a few benefits. There could always remain an unofficial super-elite level of course;) which has the full monty of benefits.

At the end of the day, if you upgrade silver (which seems to be much desired by members here) then something's got to give, and I am suggesting what gives is the ease with which you get to the top of the tree.

[preiffer]

Originally posted by sailor99
At the end of the day, if you upgrade silver (which seems to be much desired by members here) then something's got to give, and I am suggesting what gives is the ease with which you get to the top of the tree.

Exactly - that was what I was getting at above too. And part of that is making sure those that use the extra facilities VS provide it's "most frequent travellers" truly are their most frequent travellers...

Great! We must be in violent agreement then:D

My TPR must have cost me about 3 grand by the end of it (although I did do Raffles on return whioch wasn't necessary). I certainly wouldn't and I can't believe many people do that just to get gold benifits if they only fly VS once a year. Yeah I wouldn't have got to Gold last year if I hadn't done that, but since achieving it my loyalty to the brand has increased. This year I'll make Gold by just flying VS, as I probably will next year. Actually planning trips in Upper Class to retain where I would have possibly just flown in PE (not going to pretend I would have gone in Y ).

All I can say to VS's accountants who might think I'm making a mockery of the system is the longer I stay Gold the more I fly on VS metal - and nearer the front at that.

Dean

[Decker]

Funnily I find myself in agreement with Dean - under certain circumstances. I dislike the idea of someone using a TPR to get Au and then keeping it the same way. I have no real problem with someone in a slow year using a TPR to keep Au. I qualified Au during the "only takes 30" year and I have made sure I've kept it every year since - and Mrs D has joined me on the effort. Once you've experienced Au you try to keep it. So being ultra radical how about say 5 years of consecutive Ag gives you a year of Au during which the normal 30 point requal applies?

I'm totally with Dean on this one. There is no way that I would retain Gold at 40/50 TP and if it was raised I would look elsewhere for my flights. (I'd probably fly charter and buy more shoes!).

I will also retain my status this year entirely through VS metal and would guess that some people are not even aware of the alternatives.

Jilly

I kind of wish they could let people under 17 join the FC without needing a signature. CO lets you, that's why I'm joined up with them! I tried doing the mail in form with VS but it never worked.

[HighFlyer]

I earned my Au through the help of tier points from SQ on my Great Escapade. I didnt purposely do a gold run, but i think i earned about 14 TPS from SQ.

I had, in previous years, come close to Au but never reached it, 30 TPs was do-able but the extra 10 to reach 40 proved more complex. Now i am Au i have to agree with Deans sentiments that i am more keen and likely to spend on VS to keep it.

I currently have 16 TPS earned on VS metal, and will requalify over 6 months ahead of my renewal date. I have not gone out of my way to achieve this, just been doing far too much flying on full fares I dont care that i earned my Au through help of my RTW/SQ as i will (most likely) be renewing it each year soley through VS (its unlikely i'll be off on a GE again!)

I do agree that there should be some sort of limitation towards the amount of partner TPs that go towards requalification, without ruling it out completely. Loyal VS flyers should have some reward/benefit over those who use more partner airlines, and other airlines do this also.

I also think that perhaps raising the Au barrier to earn or keep it may be beneficial, i wouldnt mind if another 10 TPs (either earning or keeping) were added.

Just my penneth worth

Hi all,

As others have said - an interesting topic!

Just a thought on Tier Points and obtaining via partners. I would mention that Singapore Airlines are perhaps a special case since they own 49% of Virgin Atlantic. I'd say that buys them the right to Tier Points!

Out of interest, when people talk about there being an "unofficial" higher tier level at 50/60 TP's, is this anecdotal or is there real evidence that it exists?

As for improvements, then minor things like having V:Port up and running ASAP would be nice - and no forced news feed! SQ's equivalent system (Wiseman?) is available pretty much immediately.

Darryl

[preiffer]

This must be about the 3rd or 4th thread where the (incorrect) 50/60 tier points level has been mentioned!

For final clarification (pleeeeeaaase!), it's 100.

That still leaves me curious - what does 100 TP's get you?

Darryl

[preiffer]

Originally posted by randalf
That still leaves me curious - what does 100 TP's get you?

As discussed in the other threads, a bit more flexibility

Anyway, back on topic....

Getting back to service improvements! A lot has been said about improving Y. But what about the premium products? Especially PE. If you put more legroom, etc. in Y, it takes it nearer to PE. On some a/c, such as the dreaded A343s there isn't much difference between the two classes; certainly not £1k's worth! There is however a huge gap between UC and PE. How about fixing UC and PE first, especially the food! Make PE a "business lite" with improved food and drinks, better seats, dedicated toilets on all a/c, space to move around in and dedicated F/As. I believe that there was a plan to do this many years ago, but this was forgotten about. Have PE and UC served by the same team of F/As. Get rid of the awful "E" word in PE!
Improve the food in UC as well. Ensure consistency in all cabins.
Then they can look at improving Y.

If you improve Y, then I agree that S would need to move too. However notwithstanding everything you said, especially about 343's, the load factors are pretty good for PE I understand - so clearly quite a few people think it worth the extra money (£1k seems a little steep for the extra money, its only been a few hundred more in my experience).