Why all the frowns in BA First?

After a few years on other carriers (VS mostly), I've just done a batch of long -haul BA flights in First (747s, A380s). An impressive product for sure, with on the whole great cabin crew, but I can't fathom why so many of the pax in First seem utterly miserable. In contrast, I really enjoyed the feel of the Concorde Room in its latest design incarnation.

Club World can be a bit dull, but nowhere near the austere environment of First. Even United Business ( ) was a happier place!

Of course, I'm willing to believe it was the alarming sight of my four-month old tagging along on all these flights which caused the Frowns-in-First brigade...

Well there are a number of F flyers who basically are snobs and don't believe anyone else but them should be in the F cabin - whether that be children or people who dress more casually or who are younger then they are!

I find smiling and chatting to the crew makes for a more pleasant experience no matter what the cabin but some believe the crew should be telepathic and fawn all over them.

I can't fathom why so many of the pax in First seem utterly miserable.

Because they know virtually every other airline that has an F product is better, yet they’re stuck with BA because that’s company policy?

It’s not lovingly referred to as the best Business Class product in the sky for nothing!

[mitchja]

Don’t BA now also charge extra for smiling as well (both pax and crew)?

In all seriousness, I agree with Tonty, the snobbish / DYKWIA element of BA (especially in First) is probably the biggest factor.

Most BA F passengers are flying for work, so they are probably bored of flying yet again, possibly?

Have not flown BA long-haul for years... but my parents recently did a South America trip & flew BA both ways (not through choice, but they wanted direct flights from the UK). Flew outbound in First to Santiago & inbound in Club World from Buenos Aires. The flight in First was underwhelming service-wise.

Outbound was a 10pm departure on a pretty new Dreamliner and the crew clearly expected all First passengers to have dined in the lounge (which my parents had). It was one drink served then cabin light dimmed & crew behind the curtain in the galley. You had to use your call button if you wanted anything for about the next 8hrs of a 14hr flight.

Inbound was a 2pm departure in Club World on a 777. There is no space to put anything down in / around your seat in Club World, but the crew were brilliant and service was top-notch & made up for the poor hard-product seat & cabin layout. It's worth nothing that Buenos Aires is a Worldwide fleet crew (i.e. "old BA crew" who earn very good money) route, whereas Santiago is a Mixed fleet route (newer crew on a lot less money / very low wages considering the London base).

As to the perceived snobbishness / DYKWIA of some passengers - it's probably not helped by BA nicknaming the door to the private security channel / First Lounge & Concorde room in T5 the "millionaires door". Also wasn't there a time (probably only 15-20yrs ago at most) when you were all but expected wear a jacket & tie to travel in Club World, let alone First on BA & it was very much frowned upon if you turned up more casually dressed? Maybe some of the older "jacket & tie brigade" of passengers frown upon the younger clientele who choose to travel more comfortably dressed.

I can't fathom why so many of the pax in First seem utterly miserable.

Because they know virtually every other airline that has an F product is better, yet they’re stuck with BA because that’s company policy?

It’s not lovingly referred to as the best Business Class product in the sky for nothing!

I recently spent a few days in Dubai for a significant anniversary and wanted to treat us to first class. I couldn't justify 5k+ for Emirates but thought 3.3k for BA would suffice. Well i wished i had just paid over 2K for Emirates Business class. The service in the Concorde room was poor,. On the plane the Seat was poorly maintained and dirty, the service was slow and uninterested, the food was dreadful and the champagne warm!!! I know all first world problems but i wished i had saved the cash, flown Emirates Business and used the money for a few more over priced drinks in Dubai.

My personal 2p. Like any service industry the airline industry and ALL airlines within it are subject to critique. IMHO they are trying to achieve the impossible of a perfect customer experience - balancing hundreds of variables influenced by many different staff members. This doesn't only relate the products, atmosphere, food .etc but also the percieved benefit vs. the cost. As the cost is almost always high (relative) for long haul destinations our expectations grow even more to the extent that minor hiccups have a massive impact on our memory of the flight. Add to that the level of choice/competition I have often found myself thinking the grass is greener on Emirates, BA, Singapore .etc. All of this fuels the snobby attitude/nothing will do attitude. If you trawl the airline reviews across airlines you'll find bad/poor/terrible reviews across all airlines and all travel classes...this just demonstrates the point . Obviously there is a range within that. When there are basic things that are done incorrectly e.g. staff ignoring call bells it spoils your experience, equally something innocent e.g. running out of a certain food option can have the same effect. Whether due to neglicence/lack of care; or uncontrollable factors e.g. weather, late arriving aircraft or CC falling ill they all have a negative impact

As to the perceived snobbishness / DYKWIA of some passengers - it's probably not helped by BA nicknaming the door to the private security channel / First Lounge & Concorde room in T5 the "millionaires door".

But BA didn't call it that. The door was originally known by passengers as "the million pound door" in reference to the charge that BA allegedly had to pay HAL to compensate them for the lost revenue from passengers who were no longer going to be funnelled through miles and miles of shops to reach the lounge.

One of the fly-on-the-wall documentaries got hold of this story (A Very British Airline which had the tagline - The BBC2 show takes us into the First Class Lounge at Heathrow Terminal 5 to glimpse the restaurant, spa and champagne bar reserved for the super-rich) and mistold it, replacing "million pound door" with "millionaires' door" presumably because it paints the image of F passengers for the viewers rather than BA's financial processes. This is the same documentary that shows a member of cabin crew going through the F cabin with white gloves pointing out tiny scratches in the wardrobe door that "must be fixed before the next flight". Travellers on BA will know the truth is that you'd be lucky to get the cabin vacuum cleaned properly.

As I have discovered from the BA pages on FlyerTalk, a lot of flyers on BA are anhedonic.

As I have discovered from the BA pages on FlyerTalk, a lot of flyers on BA are anhedonic.

Anhedonia: good point!

I know people often complain about flying in premium cabins, regardless of carrier, it's just that I don't recall witnessing such a sequence of seemingly miserable passengers (you all probably can guess this, but of four flights I think two were women, and the rest men). Anyway, top info, everyone.

I was dressed in my finest "able to camouflage being vomited upon by an infant" garb ( old jeans and a t-shirt) for all the F flights. Thinking back on this, I suppose a cleverly-chosen tweed jacket might have satisfied this demand and BA F's alleged dress code.

I saved all the BA F sleep suits and (actually quite nice) Liberty amenity kits as 'gifts' for various friends. That said, very few people I saw bothered to use the sleep suits.

The crew were actually pretty good, but reading your comments, I take this to be because I was with a four-month old baby, and presumably, they got better conversation from him than from the other pax.

Check-in at SFO was an utter nightmare, with the agent simply refusing to believe that the stroller/pushchair thing was a collapsible one so that it could be gate checked and tagged Return-To-Aircraft-Door. He made me prove it to him (tricky with a baby sleeping in it) and then tagged it in a really aggressive fashion!

And, crikey, yes, I've just been looking through the BA pages on FlyerTalk. I see the misery extends beyond the aircraft door...

FYI: The BA F sectors to which I refer, btw, were: JNB-LHR-IAD/SFO-LHR-JNB (in order: A380-747/A380-A380).

p.s. As a point of interest: the placing of the bassinets in BA CW (and WT/WT+) is significantly less encroaching than in BA F, where it basically eats up quite a bit of your legroom when the seat is in 'bed' mode.

It's just not very good.

It's just not very good.

I feel like I've been in a very similar hard product in AA Business - maybe a 777?

It's just not very good.

BA F is the most comfortable seat I have ever sat in (aside perhaps from JetBlue... ECONOMY.... I don't know what they made that seat from but I could have sat there for HOURS)... but last year, I was in 1A, my pal in 1K, and having a low level conversation... the American passenger behind me said "I don't mean to be rude but would you shut the fuck up".

Via FlyerTalk, made contact with pax in 2K who said that we were not rowdy, not noisy, not disruptive. Cabin crew gave the guy a telling off.

Just a typical misery guts BA passenger.

Just a typical misery guts BA passenger.

Glad it wasn't just me thinking that, then!

Just a typical misery guts BA passenger.

Glad it wasn't just me thinking that, then!

It was probably the BA customer service manager

Bump.

Just did another BA F flight (LHR-JNB) - an avios upgrade to a work CW booking, so flying solo. Nothing much to add other than to say that the smiles are still lacking, and the frowns are as pervasive as ever (from the pax, just to be clear). The crew were professional and polite, but didn't seem particularly warm.

Due to the marvellous 2-4-1, have been able to fly BA First on six occasions.

We are ordinary people not rich and travel in our usual jeans and tops.

We have been treated mostly the same on all the flights, the best one ever was to Denver a couple of years ago, where it was an older crew, nearer to our age and I spent the whole flight talking to them about what they had done etc. it was the best flight ever. Had a much younger crew last time and they were definitely not as engaging and quite abrupt.

We are going First again in six weeks time from Terminal 5 to Seattle, so shall see what all the fuss is about. Shall only be in comfortable clothes again.

One comment we were in first last year from Terminal 3 went to go towards the First check in and the agent, screamed at me to get in the Economy queue, you should never judge a book by its cover as they say.( had a man brushing a garage forecourt, in old clothes) he was the owner of the many franchises.

We do like the BA seats, much more comfortable then Virgins, have lots of sleep suits, they are great for lounging in the evenings and giving out to the family, the new white company amenity kits are very nice although miss the Elemis creams. Linda

As a fellow casual clothes-wearer, I'll look out for you!

To be clear, the frowns I see seem to be from fellow (almost entirely male) pax, not the crew (who have been on the whole good to excellent).

One comment we were in first last year from Terminal 3 went to go towards the First check in and the agent, screamed at me to get in the Economy queue, you should never judge a book by its cover as they say.

This exact thing happened to me in T5. Walking over to the First Wing, I was chased after by an agent screaming, "Sir! Er, sir, er, THIS WAY SIR!" I thought it was some security issue, so I gave her my boarding pass and started walking with her until she stopped dead in her tracks.

"Oh, I'm terribly sorry, sir..."

You do know the wearing of blazers and boaters is compulsory in BA F?

A monocle, copy of Wisden and well-ironed Daily Mail are also recommended.

Cravats should also be worn, or alternatively a rowing club tie (Oxbridge only, of course).

Women and foreigners are not encouraged.

Ha! So this is where I've been going wrong recently...

anhedonic - I had no clue what that meant and had to look it up, I will not be able to get that out of my head when reading the BAEC forum on FT now! It's perfect, it describes most of the posters to a tee. For so many of the reasons that people have said within here I do not fly BA unless it is absolutely the last resort. And of course meeting one of the DYKWIA that insist they are not DYKWIA GGL/Gold/Gold with bar types from FT on there!

So true! I've been doing a lot of BA travel recently, and have had recourse to post over on BAEC FT. Typos commented upon, innocent mistakes pounced upon, guesswork frowned upon! But - despite all that - there are some genuinely knowledgeable and helpful posters there.

So true! I've been doing a lot of BA travel recently, and have had recourse to post over on BAEC FT. Typos commented upon, innocent mistakes pounced upon, guesswork frowned upon! But - despite all that - there are some genuinely knowledgeable and helpful posters there.

There is, c-w-s absolutely astonishes me and I have no clue what his job is, if he works for the airline, but his knowledge is scary! Do you know what he does?

I've no idea and have often wondered the same. And if he doesn't work for the airline, where on earth does he find the time to respond in such a detailed and patient manner to almost everyone!