New upper class seat

Urgh, yet again, despite the expansion and presumably with the business routes (ATL, JFK) doing quite well at MAN, it is treated as the poor relation. What route would this config work on from LGW I wonder? Unless 1 of (at least) the 1st 4 is to come in a leisure config?

Still the main thing for me from MAN I guess would be to get rid of the awful (from a J perspective) ex-AirBerlin frames. I actually quite like the current seat (but I think I am increasingly in the minority), I just like the fact that in bed mode it is a truly flat surface.

I'm with mitchja on the door thing. Having flown even Emirates F, the door is kind of pointless if you ask me. As long as VS have worked out their angles correctly, you won't be able to see others without making considerable effort, especially with the door/divider drawn. I've flown a very similar setup on Cathay J and found it more than private enough. And in any case, if someone wants to have a look in, all they have to do is stand up. Even in Emirates F this was the case (admittedly they seem to have addressed that now in their new F).

And a potential 335 people using Bluetooth to control their screens at the same time. More in leisure config.

I’m not a fan of Bluetooth at the best of times!

From the description in the Head For Points article the Loft sounds like a bit of a dog’s breakfast. If it’s intended to give business people somewhere to sit and monopolise the space, then it isn’t going to be a “social” space as who in their right mind would put their presentations and spreadsheets up on a public screen so I could foresee requests for privacy. If it doesn’t turn out to be used in that way then it’s either “the bar” renamed or it ends up like the communal space on Qantas A380 which never gets used.

Perhaps they’re trying to re-capture that 70’s first class lounge concept...?!

Perhaps they’re trying to re-capture that 70’s first class lounge concept...?!

From a time when First didn’t have 42 seats...

Or even the original VS 747’s

Perhaps they’re trying to re-capture that 70’s first class lounge concept...?!

Fags and Booze!!!

I think not including Manchester was an oversight as they are replacing the 747s, and there’s nothing to indicate that there has been any change to this original plan with two configs.

The higher end business spec one to replace the 340s is the one they have shown off and the one that will come first.

Again with the bar, I think it’s a good use of the space, it’s flexible to what people wanna use it for, and it’s a good evolution of the concept!

Urgh, yet again, despite the expansion and presumably with the business routes (ATL, JFK) doing quite well at MAN, it is treated as the poor relation. What route would this config work on from LGW I wonder? Unless 1 of (at least) the 1st 4 is to come in a leisure config?

Still the main thing for me from MAN I guess would be to get rid of the awful (from a J perspective) ex-AirBerlin frames. I actually quite like the current seat (but I think I am increasingly in the minority), I just like the fact that in bed mode it is a truly flat surface.

I think you’re right on that count, I don’t think there are a plethora of routes ex MAN where the A35K would be suitable. I would class JFK as a “probable” with ATL and MCO as “possible”.

I think we are stumbling upon a separate issue, which is what VS intends to order to grow / replace the B744 and A330 fleets (particularly the A332s) in a 2-5 year timeframe. This may warrant a separate thread (if anyone’s interested let me know and I can set one up if there is not one already in existence).

What I want to know is where this loft is going to be on the leisure fleet?!

What I want to know is where this loft is going to be on the leisure fleet?!

That's what I was wondering in my earlier post. Assuming the loft is at L2 and a leisure config has less J seats, then they either put some non J seats right at the front, have the loft in the middle of a premium section or get rid of it in leisure config.

[mitchja]

Something else that seems to have been slipped through very quietly is that the A350 Premium seat will only be 18.5” wide compared to the current Premium seat which is 21” wide.

Even the new Upper Class seat will only be 20” wide

Something else that seems to have been slipped through very quietly is that the A350 Premium seat will only be 18.5” wide compared to the current Premium seat which is 21” wide.

Even the new Upper Class seat will only be 20” wide

Yes that is bad. Isn't that only 0.5" wider than Y? Seems standard in W on an A350 though.

Y is 17” isn’t it?

But at least Y has moveable armrests. W doesn’t so it’s going to feel very tight as there’s absolutely no ‘spread’ room.

Funnily enough the blogs don’t seem to mention the reduced widths because they’re too busy gushing about the new UC suite. Anyone would think they don’t want to upset VS in case they don’t get any more freebies ....

[mitchja]

The new seat width dimensions are from the main VS website

The A350 Y seats will be 'upto 17.4" wide' so the narrowest in the fleet. The rest of the fleet economy seat width is between 17.5" and 18"

I was at the launch last night and was able to try out each seat. I'll step in as there has not been much comment from those who have tried the seats first hand, so my thoughts are below. For reference I am a 6'4" fairly broad guy:

Economy is 17.5" width
Premium is 18.5" width

Economy - Not bad at all I must say. Seat was well padded and comfy and had a good high back with an adjustable headrest. The seats at the reveal had the 34" delight legroom, so I can't comment about the "normal" seat pitch. What stood out is that the recline mechanism has been adjusted such that should the person in front recline back your legroom is not impeded as much. I took a seat and asked the person in front of me to recline their seat back all the way, and I didn't have an issue with the screen being too close.
Honestly, it felt like an improvement over the current iteration.
Layout will be 3-3-3.

Premium - So this is a contentious one. The reduced width is noticeable. The armrests are also smaller and you are potentially going to be jostling for arm space with your neighbour, and you are a little too close should they be a stranger.
Seat pitch is unchanged at 38".
An interesting point to note is, again, the change in recline mechanism. With the current seats, should the person in front recline you lose a lot of space. With the new A350 seat, I asked the person in front to recline. Even with my feet up on the footrest, my knee space was not impeded. If I reclined my own chair, I was able to slide down in the seat, with my feet on the footrest and not find myself struggling to get comfortable.
Another interesting point was that the side of the PE chair actually raises and lowers. I didn't get a chance to see how this impacted on the space as I was ushered out just before I tried it but it could be significant. The lady said it was an accessibility consideration.

Upper:
If this really is 20" wide, I am surprised because it did not feel like it. It felt very roomy. No question in my mind that it is in an upgrade on the current iteration. We didn't get a huge amount of time so I'll sum up my thoughts and what I heard/saw:

• There was a three-row set up. Not all the seats were fully functional as it was a training set-up (i.e. no overhead bins, lights), and some buttons were not hooked up.
• At first, the seat felt quite hard
• In bed mode, I was able to lie fully flat with my feet in the cubby hole of the seat in front. There was enough room for my UK size 12 feet.
• Again, I am 6'4" and was able to lie fully flat in the seat and not be impeded.
• The seats in the middle are good for couples as these are angled towards each other. There is a privacy divider that can be moved across if needed.
• Passengers will be able to control the mood lighting above their seat. I believe the chap said there were three settings, full, half, or off. Make of that what you will.

That's all I can think of now. Throw questions my way if you like!

Is there going to be a wonder wall for PE, and if so is it going to me more like a wonder corner (like on a333) or an actual wall (like on 787)?
Also, what did you think about the loft?

Who really wants to hide themselves away in an enclosed box for a 10 hour flight?

Me for one. Especially on a night flight. Having sampled Qatar’s Qsuite it’s like a mini hotel room with privacy to sleep.

Totally agree closed when sleeping

Having an communal area in the cabin is without any doubt the biggest differentiation between VS and BA IMHO. It’s that difference that has always given VS the edge over BA as well and of course the VS crews as well

Agreed, and The Loft seems the best way of achieving that without the added expense of staffing a bar. But is it enough to win J customers over from BA, once it’s launched its own new suite (with door)?

I’d say the J customers who really matter for the airline - the ones who regularly buy expensive, flexible tickets rather than occasional airmiles redeemers - value privacy over a social space.

Again I fear your right. My experience on BA is privacy is paramount for business passengers(as opposed to leisure). Look how fast the privacy screens go up on the current CW. Also the colour scheme maybe to hip for BA folk. It already being described as akin to a teenage girls bedroom on the FT forum.

Finally a better judge maybe Alex Macheras the young travel Vlogger. I would have thought this was more the target audience

https://twitter.com/alexinair/status/11 ... 63616?s=21

He doesn’t look impressed with the privacy divider

Finally I suspect the first four 777 that are going to get the new CWS will be on JFK asap

Is there going to be a wonder wall for PE, and if so is it going to me more like a wonder corner (like on a333) or an actual wall (like on 787)?
Also, what did you think about the loft?

Good question, I did not hear anything about a Wonder Wall so... maybe!

I didn't mind the loft. For me personally the bar was always a place to move somewhere else. To get away from my seat for a while. The loft will likely cover that need. There's a three seater sofa, a two seater and a solo chair, and room for two standing at a bar-like counter.

Helpfully as well they are equipped with seat belts so no more scuttling back to your seat during turbulance.

Some reading on the credentials of 21 year old "aviation analyst" Alex Macheras here...

https://twitter.com/paul_winginit/statu ... 2458648582

Something else that seems to have been slipped through very quietly is that the A350 Premium seat will only be 18.5” wide compared to the current Premium seat which is 21” wide.

It looks like the width is being sacrificed to allow the tables to fold up into the armrests instead of seatbacks, therefore freeing up the space on the seatbacks for the 13" screens and storage space underneath. It wouldn't bother me too much as I'm 33/34" waist, but for me reducing the seat width removes one big selling point of PE. Bigger screens are all good and well, but you don't want them too big if you're sat too close to them.

To me that just leaves...

*38" leg room
*2x 23kg bags
*Priority boarding/de-planing/luggage collection
*Bubbly and premium meals

...as the main selling points of PE over Economy Delight (noting how Delight can use PE check-in), as well as the extra TP and miles. Compared to Economy Delight or an exit row seat, I suspect it's going to be a harder sell to justify paying the extra unless you're one of those who wouldn't be seen dead in Economy.

It looks like the width is being sacrificed to allow the tables to fold up into the armrests instead of seatbacks

The tray tables have always folded up into the armrests in premium. The width issue is from airlines trying to squeeze in 8 PE seats across on an a350.

as the main selling points of PE over Economy Delight (noting how Delight can use PE check-in), as well as the extra TP and miles.

Although the funny thing is - you get less miles in Premium than you do in Economy Delight, weird eh?

It looks like the width is being sacrificed to allow the tables to fold up into the armrests instead of seatbacks

The tray tables have always folded up into the armrests in premium. The width issue is from airlines trying to squeeze in 8 PE seats across on an a350.

Ah yes, I remember now - brain fade on my part!

The rest of my point still stands though as to me it's an erosion of the product on offer, though VS aren't alone in sacrificing seat width in favour of more seats - you only have to look at how many airlines have gone 9-abreast in Economy on their 787's for example. When you factor in this and the Economy Delight offering, you would start to question the value of it if there's a big price difference between Delight and Premium. Each to their own I guess.

Something else that seems to have been slipped through very quietly is that the A350 Premium seat will only be 18.5” wide compared to the current Premium seat which is 21” wide.

Even the new Upper Class seat will only be 20” wide

I see this a lot, and never really get a satisfactory response, just told that’s what Virgin/BA say. I believe both Virgin and BA have 8 across on the 747 in Premium. Given the plane width is what is, how did Virgin ever find the extra 20” to 2 feet, the aisles from memory are not super narrow. The real sense of space and comfort you have is not just about how wide the airline claims the seat width is, it’s how close to your neighbour you are and how much width you have feet to head. When two airlines have the same plane, and the same number of seats across, claiming a 2.5” to 3” wider seat than a competitor was always a stretch as I see it. Published seat widths will only ever meaningful if measured in a consistent fashion.
I think almost all airlines are going 8 across in premium cabins. There one exception I’m aware of, I think its Lufthansa?