last July Virgin Atlantic changed caterers, Has anyone noticed any difference?
What would you change about Virgins catering?
What would you change about Virgins catering?
Oooooo! I think you may have opened a can of worms with that question.
Originally posted by iforres1
I would change the caterer again. Or outsource to SQ[y]
Iain
I'm think they use the SQ Caterer at LHR??? Didn't they switch from Gate Gourmet to Alpha Catering (in part causing the problems that lead to the BA fiasco).
Both SQ and CX use Alpha at Heathrow now and both have much better food on board in J.
Its not generally the Caterer but the airline budget and their quality control.
Originally posted by milehigh
Thats is interesting, is it quality, quantity or choice that makes SQ good?
I think its a bit of everything.
When I used to Work for CX they decided to change the Late night flight catering from HKG to LHR on the midnight flights in Business. Previously they had offered a full 3 hour 6 course silver service dinner, but 'feedback' was passengers wanted to eat quickly and sleep.
They reduced this greatly to a trayed Midnight snack... but increased spend and quality on the main course considerably.
However not only did customer ratings for choice, and quantity drop dramatically, but also for quality... passengers simply didn't feel as if they were getting value for money.
Eventually a multi course dinner was reintroduced, with the midnight snack option remaining. Customer ratings were never so high, as the greater options made passengers feel they really were getting good value.
They were planning on reducing the Ycl Breakfasts on the same sectors from Full Hot meals to continental style, as again 'feedback' was that people wanted rest and not to be disturbed. But soon realised that this kind of 'feedback' can often be taken the wrong way. Of course passengers reply that they want more rest... but they also want the meal to be an experience, and in whatever cabin the meal is an important essence in creating a great flying experience.
Definitely quality. Also range to some extent; posters here have noticed the freedom menu does not have as much range as it used to.
Personally, I think they should stop focusing on doing "fancy dishes", badly and start thinking about variety of options.
On my last flight, there were some amazingly long-worded meals described in the menu, but NONE of them sounded even remotely appetising. (Especially the "Lamb Suet Pudding" which several Americans seemed to order before realising what suet was... [:0])
Anyway - What did I end up with? A mixture of the light bites - a jacket potato and a (dry [n]) Chicken & Mushroom Pie.
What did I fancy? Lasagne, chicken burger, a big pie - anything like that.
They could do a lot worse than getting SIMPLE dishes ABSOLUTELY right. All they seem to be doing at present is getting semi-complicated dishes very, very wrong.
On my last flight, there were some amazingly long-worded meals described in the menu, but NONE of them sounded even remotely appetising. (Especially the "Lamb Suet Pudding" which several Americans seemed to order before realising what suet was... [:0])
Anyway - What did I end up with? A mixture of the light bites - a jacket potato and a (dry [n]) Chicken & Mushroom Pie.
What did I fancy? Lasagne, chicken burger, a big pie - anything like that.
They could do a lot worse than getting SIMPLE dishes ABSOLUTELY right. All they seem to be doing at present is getting semi-complicated dishes very, very wrong.
From memory the breakfasts in Econ are appauling.
Agree with Paul, would much prefer they do simple things well to make an enjoyable meal. I'm in a plane at whatever thousand meters, i'm not expecting fine dining here. Just good tasty food.
An excellent example of this is the curry i've had several times in Economy. Its a great meal that is perfectly suited to being reheated - thats the kind of stuff that works for me.
Mat xxx
Agree with Paul, would much prefer they do simple things well to make an enjoyable meal. I'm in a plane at whatever thousand meters, i'm not expecting fine dining here. Just good tasty food.
An excellent example of this is the curry i've had several times in Economy. Its a great meal that is perfectly suited to being reheated - thats the kind of stuff that works for me.
Mat xxx
I travel on the LHR LAX route three or four times a year, in the cheap seats of economy, and I find the choice and quality of the catering from LHR to LAX much better than that from LAX to LHR. It would be nice if they were both of the same higher standard.
Maybe I'm too fussy!
Maybe I'm too fussy!
Very good points raised Ben - and all.
Im also a fan of simple dishes - curry, pies, pasta - bring it on! Keep your Tomato Bisque, Hake and Suet Pudding!!
I was always (and still am to a certain degree) not in favour of the Good Night Flight (GNF) move, and im not alone in this thought. (Without the need to even mention this 23 page thread on the matter!)
However, on most of my flights in Upper (if not all) i have elected to eat in the Clubhouse and have a smaller meal on board (certainly not the full four courses) so in essence im doing the GNF anyway, but the difference is that its not imposed on me, it is elective, and if i want a full four course meal i can do so.
I think this is the key here, and that customer feedback was certainly taken the wrong way with Virgin (just as Ben described with CX). I agree that the majority of Upper passengers are more interested in sleeping than making the most of the Freedom menu, but that does not mean that the full food service should stop as it is part of the whole Business cabin experience.
Personally, id like to see the reintroduction of four main meal choices, but also integrate a way of serving a GNF type meal if that is what the passenger wanted. Perhaps a choice of Standard or GNF meal, where you can eat as per usual at your leisure, or specify exactly what you want to eat and have it all brought out at once (with GNF passengers likely having to be the priority in this instance)
Just my penneth worth ..
.. and we havent even had a mention of the word Lamb!!!
Im also a fan of simple dishes - curry, pies, pasta - bring it on! Keep your Tomato Bisque, Hake and Suet Pudding!!
I was always (and still am to a certain degree) not in favour of the Good Night Flight (GNF) move, and im not alone in this thought. (Without the need to even mention this 23 page thread on the matter!)
However, on most of my flights in Upper (if not all) i have elected to eat in the Clubhouse and have a smaller meal on board (certainly not the full four courses) so in essence im doing the GNF anyway, but the difference is that its not imposed on me, it is elective, and if i want a full four course meal i can do so.
I think this is the key here, and that customer feedback was certainly taken the wrong way with Virgin (just as Ben described with CX). I agree that the majority of Upper passengers are more interested in sleeping than making the most of the Freedom menu, but that does not mean that the full food service should stop as it is part of the whole Business cabin experience.
Personally, id like to see the reintroduction of four main meal choices, but also integrate a way of serving a GNF type meal if that is what the passenger wanted. Perhaps a choice of Standard or GNF meal, where you can eat as per usual at your leisure, or specify exactly what you want to eat and have it all brought out at once (with GNF passengers likely having to be the priority in this instance)
Just my penneth worth ..
.. and we havent even had a mention of the word Lamb!!!
Ahem...
quote:Originally posted by preiffer
(Especially the "Lamb Suet Pudding" which several Americans seemed to order before realising what suet was...
Ok, ok, but you know what i meant ...
Or Square Pies.
Mmmm ... pie!! Definately a firm vote for bringing those back!!
Perhaps because its GNF Crew dont make it clear that the Freedom service (Pick and mix as I like to think) is still in effect.
Maybe the idea of maximising sleep is good but from what I hear instead of priority
1 - turndown and nightcap
2- express cold tray
3- Hot supper tray
maybe should be
1 - turndown and nightcap
2 - light snack from freedom menu served on one tray
3 - Normal Freedom menu but merge drinks service and or some dises on same tray?
Maybe the idea of maximising sleep is good but from what I hear instead of priority
1 - turndown and nightcap
2- express cold tray
3- Hot supper tray
maybe should be
1 - turndown and nightcap
2 - light snack from freedom menu served on one tray
3 - Normal Freedom menu but merge drinks service and or some dises on same tray?
It would be very interesting to know what value VA allocate to the different meals in Y and J. As a percentage of the total fare, I assume it is under 5% of fare cost. I assume the main meal in J would be around £20.00 with drinks averaging a further £20.00 per head on average.
Originally posted by Tony T
It would be very interesting to know what value VA allocate to the different meals in Y and J. As a percentage of the total fare, I assume it is under 5% of fare cost.
No idea for VS, but for CX in 2001 it was (for the Main Course portion of Dinner on a longhaul alone) £0.70p for Ycl, £1.70 for Jcl and £3.00 for Fcl.
The main extra costs were associated with Booze and the cost of cleaning china.
Square pies and the lamb shanks back on the menu please:D Scrap the GNF service, if there is a full freedom menu loaded the paying pax decides how much or how little food they want and at what time they wish it to be served.Lets not forget there are snooze zones on the east coast flights anyway.At least the fizz has gone in the right direction[y].
As some have said earlier, it is a variety of factors:
Choice - the menu has significantly shrunk over the lsat few years, so has the menu's in the CH's.
Quality - As pointed out earlier, don't waste time tryign to do poncey food with silly detailed descriptions. Very few people fly to get a 3 star michelin meal. Stick to the basics, and do them well. We have the same issue at work in our company restuarant (incidentally run by B&P who do the food at some of the CH's), they try to hard to do over the top food and people mostly turn their nose up at it - but when Shepherds Pie, Toad in the Hole or Lasagne is on, the queue is a mile long. Not to be rude to cabin crew, but they are not chefs, so how would I expect them to deal with intricate dishes and food. Simple food on the otherhand should be fine (no comment HighFlyer [:p])
I do think the menu's need to be changed more frequently too, as given the limited selection nowadays, I find myself having the same dish. On my last flight home in UC, the crew thought I was nuts when I asked for cereals for my main meal, I was tired of having the same dish on the way home.
I think we know most people's thoughts on GNF. Freedom should be whenever you want, but in all the years I ahve been flying in UC, I have yet to see it pushed in this way. The crew walk round and ask shortly after take off for meal choices, but not once have I heard a passenger told the concept of Freedom, and that they can request food at anytime. Sometimes I shovel in far too much at the CH (especially if its LGW or LHR!) and then skip over meal selection after take off, but will then ask for a meal later on - the amount of times other UC passengers have asked me how I got the meal.
At the risk of upsetting people, I think more effort is put into selecting the wines that are onboard than what food is onboard. I'm not a wine drinker (obviously) but it always amazes me how many are carried.
Thanks,
Richard
Choice - the menu has significantly shrunk over the lsat few years, so has the menu's in the CH's.
Quality - As pointed out earlier, don't waste time tryign to do poncey food with silly detailed descriptions. Very few people fly to get a 3 star michelin meal. Stick to the basics, and do them well. We have the same issue at work in our company restuarant (incidentally run by B&P who do the food at some of the CH's), they try to hard to do over the top food and people mostly turn their nose up at it - but when Shepherds Pie, Toad in the Hole or Lasagne is on, the queue is a mile long. Not to be rude to cabin crew, but they are not chefs, so how would I expect them to deal with intricate dishes and food. Simple food on the otherhand should be fine (no comment HighFlyer [:p])
I do think the menu's need to be changed more frequently too, as given the limited selection nowadays, I find myself having the same dish. On my last flight home in UC, the crew thought I was nuts when I asked for cereals for my main meal, I was tired of having the same dish on the way home.
I think we know most people's thoughts on GNF. Freedom should be whenever you want, but in all the years I ahve been flying in UC, I have yet to see it pushed in this way. The crew walk round and ask shortly after take off for meal choices, but not once have I heard a passenger told the concept of Freedom, and that they can request food at anytime. Sometimes I shovel in far too much at the CH (especially if its LGW or LHR!) and then skip over meal selection after take off, but will then ask for a meal later on - the amount of times other UC passengers have asked me how I got the meal.
At the risk of upsetting people, I think more effort is put into selecting the wines that are onboard than what food is onboard. I'm not a wine drinker (obviously) but it always amazes me how many are carried.
Thanks,
Richard
My recent trips in UC underscore all the points made above. The GNF outbound JFK-LHR was an odd selection and unappealing. I was glad that I'd enjoyed a good sandwich and a glass of wine in the JFK Clubhouse earlier. The inbound trip to LAX on VS7 should have, in my opinion, been chock full of decent, good choices (daytime flight = hungry people) but instead there was that Suet thingy and honestly, I ended up with the vegetarian option only grudgingly.
If I were close to the ear of the VS food director I would invite him/her to: 1) read this and the other food threads noted by High Flyer; 2)sample the SQ fare, and aim for that level of quality; 3) conduct a poll on desired changes to be distributed to VS' Flying Club members; 4) hide the results from the bean counters and show it directly to SRB.
As others have said, true frequent flyers do not expect "gourmet" at FL350. There is no substitute for well executed, simple fare, however.
Thanks for braving this "risky" question, Mile High.
Chuck-
If I were close to the ear of the VS food director I would invite him/her to: 1) read this and the other food threads noted by High Flyer; 2)sample the SQ fare, and aim for that level of quality; 3) conduct a poll on desired changes to be distributed to VS' Flying Club members; 4) hide the results from the bean counters and show it directly to SRB.
As others have said, true frequent flyers do not expect "gourmet" at FL350. There is no substitute for well executed, simple fare, however.
Thanks for braving this "risky" question, Mile High.
Chuck-
As usual an interesting topic and some very thoughtful replies. Particularly interesting was Ben's comment on CX's customer feedback - showing how important it is to ask the right questions in the right way; simplistic surveys result in the wrong decisions (a la GNF).
All in all I agree, simple but nutritious food served well is the key. I've suggested elsewhere that a healthier option (low carb/fat/sugar/salt etc.) would be an idea and better salads ... salad should be so easy to do well with good quality ingredients and good dressing! Also suggest that preparation could be better, like serving cheese at a temperature higher than the on board fridges ... how about a cheese tray on the bar? The Chelsea pie man could be a good source of wholesome grub for those who want pies!
Although I lambast AA for many reasons they always did food well in business, good quality steak, potatoes and vegetables, well prepared chicken in a key lime dressing with rice, qood piece of poached salmon etc. And they always had one crew member trained and dedicated to food preparation then two to service the cabin for the busiest times (for 35 max pax).
Hope some of these things find ears at Virgin HQ milehigh!
All in all I agree, simple but nutritious food served well is the key. I've suggested elsewhere that a healthier option (low carb/fat/sugar/salt etc.) would be an idea and better salads ... salad should be so easy to do well with good quality ingredients and good dressing! Also suggest that preparation could be better, like serving cheese at a temperature higher than the on board fridges ... how about a cheese tray on the bar? The Chelsea pie man could be a good source of wholesome grub for those who want pies!
Although I lambast AA for many reasons they always did food well in business, good quality steak, potatoes and vegetables, well prepared chicken in a key lime dressing with rice, qood piece of poached salmon etc. And they always had one crew member trained and dedicated to food preparation then two to service the cabin for the busiest times (for 35 max pax).
Hope some of these things find ears at Virgin HQ milehigh!
There's a plane at JFK, to fly you back from far away
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
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