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#258401 by rupsingh
14 Mar 2009, 17:48
Just got off the phone to VS, booking 2 tickets to Del on the 2nd of april and returnng the 15th of April. The agent informed us that the flights were very busy and there was a very high chance of them being oversold and people being bumped off the flights

What I was wondering was, is this very likley, and is there anything to minimise your chances of this and if it does happen what sort of payments does VS offer

Regards

Rupinder
#710073 by jafleming
14 Mar 2009, 18:26
Both those flights look fully booked in PE and Economy, but plenty of room in Upper.
J7 D7 R7 Z7 S0 Y0 B0 L0 M0 Q0 X0 N0 0 0
#710074 by pjh
14 Mar 2009, 18:39
quote:Originally posted by rupsingh

Just got off the phone to VS, booking 2 tickets to Del on the 2nd of april and returnng the 15th of April. The agent informed us that the flights were very busy and there was a very high chance of them being oversold and people being bumped off the flights

What I was wondering was, is this very likley, and is there anything to minimise your chances of this and if it does happen what sort of payments does VS offer


In my experience the VS policy has been to request volunteers with the offer of a free return flight (they only tell you later that it's a Reward flight with all that implies [:w]) or 50k FC miles, and hotel accommodation if (a) you're pushed to a next day flight and (b) you're on a return leg. I've seen this done both in the check in queue and at the gate.

Out of volunteering three time to be bumped;


- once, nothing, we weren't needed

- one Economy to PE upgrade as a thank you on the original flight when it turned out they didn't need to bump anyone when the the gate closed

- one free return flight each when, as a family, we volunteered to be bumped from a Heathrow - JFK flight and onto a Heathrow - Newark flight that departed all of two hours later.

I don't know whether the free flight is in the class of booking. Ours were, but then again we were flying Economy.

Paul
#710079 by jodash
14 Mar 2009, 19:26
I did not think that over selling of tickets still went on!
#710080 by Darren Wheeler
14 Mar 2009, 19:38
quote:Originally posted by jodash
I did not think that over selling of tickets still went on!


Given the amount of people who simply do not turn up for a flight, airlines can over-sell.

But that is a whole different question that has been covered to death in other threads. [;)]
#710081 by Jeffers555
14 Mar 2009, 20:42
quote:I did not think that over selling of tickets still went on!

Economy is regularly oversold by upto 10%. PE occasionally by a few seats and UC virtually never.
#710083 by jodash
14 Mar 2009, 20:57
Ok thanks,can't understand people wo buy a ticket and don't turn up!
#710084 by slinky09
14 Mar 2009, 21:06
quote:Originally posted by Jeffers555
quote:I did not think that over selling of tickets still went on!

Economy is regularly oversold by upto 10%. PE occasionally by a few seats and UC virtually never.


Wrong - all classes can be oversold, UC frequently is especially JFK.

Wrong per cents too.

[;)]
#710085 by rupsingh
14 Mar 2009, 21:13
Thanks for the info guys im in upper, and wouldnt mind being bumped for 50k miles!
#710086 by tontybear
14 Mar 2009, 21:34
quote:Originally posted by jodash
Ok thanks,can't understand people wo buy a ticket and don't turn up!





Oh for all sorts of reasons such as a last minute family emergency, delay in their journey to the airport, last minute change of mind or just forgetting.

There is also the ever popular turn up a day late as well as the arrive at check-in at 6.00 PM for a 6.00 AM flight.

Both of these made good watching on those airport / airline reality type programmes.

I suppose one way for rupsingh to avoid being bumped would be to check in early and get into his seat as soon as the gate opens for boarding!

As to what you would be offered there are the EU regulations on this.
#710087 by slinky09
14 Mar 2009, 21:37
... and the most popular reason is the business traveller who's plans have changed!
#710088 by Jeffers555
14 Mar 2009, 21:45
So come on slinky 09 don't be shy, back up your statement with some factual figures so we can all be enlightened.[oo]
#710089 by slinky09
14 Mar 2009, 22:33
quote:Originally posted by rupsingh
Thanks for the info guys im in upper, and wouldnt mind being bumped for 50k miles!


As per previous post, you're unlikely to be bumped from Upper on this flight, more likely that people will be upgraded, if you were the first pass would be to Premium with compensation.

quote:Origanally posted by Jeffers5554
So come on slinky 09 don't be shy, back up your statement with some factual figures so we can all be enlightened.


Why? You're wrong on both assertations, UC is often oversold to JFK resulting in downgrades or moves to other flights if all the pax turn up. The higher the cabin class, the more likely it is that a passenger is flying on a flexible fare.
#710093 by honey lamb
14 Mar 2009, 22:59
quote:Originally posted by Jeffers555
quote:I did not think that over selling of tickets still went on!

Economy is regularly oversold by upto 10%. PE occasionally by a few seats and UC virtually never.

The last time I flew out of Dubai, UC was heavily oversold and they were looking for voulnteers to take a downgrade and offering compensation of a free economy return ticket or 50K miles
#710096 by Kraken
14 Mar 2009, 23:50
The level of overselling must be finely tuned by the route+class of travel. I know that the VS website captures the reason for travel, i.e. Business / Leisure, at the time of booking.

It's a fair bet to say that someone booking a non-refundable ticket in any class on, say, a MCO route is likely to be travelling on holiday. Therefore, it is highly likely that they will turn up for the flight, barring any last minute personal / family problems.

By contrast, someone booking a full fare J, W or Y ticket to any destination is doing so for one reason - flexibility. There is a good chance that a certain %age of these pax will not turn up at the airport, as they can claim a full refund on the ticket if not used. This is why VS (& other airlines) overbook.

James
#710102 by pjh
15 Mar 2009, 02:14
quote:Originally posted by slinky09
... and the most popular reason is the business traveller who's plans have changed!


It may be less of a practice than it used to be, but that was certainly the case a few years ago when I worked for a bank. It was policy to book fully flex fares because (a) stuff happens and meetings get moved and (b) it wasn't uncommon to miss a flight because of over running meetings / traffic problems. And (sigh) policy was business class which was UC on VS.

Paul
#710115 by gilly
15 Mar 2009, 12:17
Years ago - 1999 I think - we (4of us) were first to check-in at LGW for an Economy MCO 2pm flight ?VS27. We were told the flight was oversold and offered Continental Business First flights via Newark leaving a little earlier and 4 free Economy tickets anywhere.

We accepted naturally and had a fab holiday in St Lucia.
#710149 by Lipstick
16 Mar 2009, 00:46
Regardless of what cabin you're travelling in, the VS oversales offer is for a free round trip in Economy!

And they would rather downgrade the higher cabins then bump off Economy passengers than put J's or W's on another airline.
#710151 by ilikebluesmarties
16 Mar 2009, 04:37
Does anyone know the policy of downgrading/bumping off flights?

I am on my first paying fare in UC and will kick up hell if I get changed and want to avoid it(as most do) if possible.


I just wondered, if they do it by booking type/class- not sure what you call it i.e J/Z etc... would a Z get bumped before someone else in upper? or is it done first come first served? i.e once XX (full cabin) is reached they start downgrading people or do they downgrade all pax with Z ticket?
#710180 by ukcobra
16 Mar 2009, 14:02
When I have seen Business Passengers on BA and Virgin flights bumped down a cabin, it's always been because they have been amongst the last to arrive and check in.

So get there in good time, get your seat allocation, and you would be very very unlucky to be asked to sit in a different part of the plane !
#711089 by rupsingh
27 Mar 2009, 09:47
Ok, due to travel plans changing I am now flying out in Upper on the 1/04 on the 300. When I changed the ticket Availability showed I took the last seat on the plane which was confirmed by the premier line agent.

However this morning another one J and D fare seat shows up as being available on expertflyer. Is this revenue management ensuring that each remaining seat is sold at a premium price?
#711100 by Slipperman
27 Mar 2009, 11:04
quote:Originally posted by rupsingh
Ok, due to travel plans changing I am now flying out in Upper on the 1/04 on the 300. When I changed the ticket Availability showed I took the last seat on the plane which was confirmed by the premier line agent.

However this morning another one J and D fare seat shows up as being available on expertflyer. Is this revenue management ensuring that each remaining seat is sold at a premium price?


It's probably someone else changing their travel plans and releasing the seat.
#711102 by slinky09
27 Mar 2009, 11:09
quote:Originally posted by rupsingh
Ok, due to travel plans changing I am now flying out in Upper on the 1/04 on the 300. When I changed the ticket Availability showed I took the last seat on the plane which was confirmed by the premier line agent.

However this morning another one J and D fare seat shows up as being available on expertflyer. Is this revenue management ensuring that each remaining seat is sold at a premium price?


Don't forget there are advance booking terms (e.g. Zs at 42 days out and above), Ds at 7 days ... also, more likely, someone on a flexible fare changed their plan or an agent was holding a D for 24 hrs while a client confirmed or not - so a basket of reasons. VS could still, in theory, oversell the flight too!
#711177 by rupsingh
27 Mar 2009, 21:51
quote:Originally posted by slinky09
quote:Originally posted by rupsingh
Ok, due to travel plans changing I am now flying out in Upper on the 1/04 on the 300. When I changed the ticket Availability showed I took the last seat on the plane which was confirmed by the premier line agent.

However this morning another one J and D fare seat shows up as being available on expertflyer. Is this revenue management ensuring that each remaining seat is sold at a premium price?


Don't forget there are advance booking terms (e.g. Zs at 42 days out and above), Ds at 7 days ... also, more likely, someone on a flexible fare changed their plan or an agent was holding a D for 24 hrs while a client confirmed or not - so a basket of reasons. VS could still, in theory, oversell the flight too!



Hmm agree with the point, but if there was genuinely only 1 seat left in upper why is it still showing availability as a reward booking[?] Would it not make more sense if this was the case to keep it as a revenue fare?
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